Is it really that super unrealistic Kirks rank jump...

[Mr_Homn]

If you haven't seen the prequels, skip them and watch Plinkett's reviews instead: just as long, better written and more entertaining.

So true.

Those reviews are so hilarious, and so very, very true. My favorite part is the behind the scenes when Lucas is going on and on about extensive CGI scenes and how it's all going to be like poetry and other stupid crap, and everyone is just looking at each other like "This is going to be a disaster" but nobody has the courage to say anything to him. I wonder what Lucas would think if he saw the Plinkett reviews. Besides "Who cares, I'm insanely rich", of course.

And yeah, I saw the original trilogy as a preteen and I saw the Prequels as a preteen/teenager, so I'd say the "looking at it through jaded eyes" defense is just more apologist baloney. I was 12 when Phantom Menace came out for crying out loud. Target demographic. I found it entertaining at the time when I first saw it (although even I as a 12 year old found Jake Lloyd atrocious and Jar Jar annoying and unfunny), but even then, I felt there was something wrong with it, I just didn't know what. I would watch the originals again and try to figure out what it was. It simply didn't draw me in like the originals had. I was one of those people trying to make myself like them. Eventually I gave up trying. You shouldn't have to try so hard to like something. The Prequels were BAD FILMS. As an adult, I now know what the problem was. They were fundamentally flawed. No recognizable character arcs, nonsensical plots, very BAD and unbelievable romance, poor dialogue, bad pacing, endless prattling on about non important political elements, unsympathetic characters, and from what I can tell by watching behind the scenes footage and reading the interviews of actors involved, piss poor directing. They were just bad.


Like I said before, I'm not a fan of the Abrams reboot, but it's a vastly superior film to any of the SW prequels. Other than the Lens Flares.

 

[Sean Aaron]

My favorite part is the behind the scenes when Lucas is going on and on about extensive CGI scenes and how it's all going to be like poetry and other stupid crap, and everyone is just looking at each other like "This is going to be a disaster" but nobody has the courage to say anything to him. I wonder what Lucas would think if he saw the Plinkett reviews. Besides "Who cares, I'm insanely rich", of course.

The screening of Phantom Menace is also brilliant where everyone realises how disjointed the story is and doesn't really flow, but it's impossible to fix without cutting a third of the movie and possibly reshooting several scenes.

Better still is all of this is from the documentaries included in the 2-disc DVDs - personally I don't think I'd want to be showing my ass like that unless it was a warts-and-all documentary done after my death...

 

[Pauln6]

I didn't mind the Phantom Menace so much. It felt like a small story building to something much bigger. Pernilla August played one of the few believable characters in the entire franchise, and Natalie Portman was quite appealing as a heroine. If they'd had more of Darth Maul I would probably have felt it was ok. The decision to use R2D2 and C3PO as much as they did and this early on seemed really odd though, especially as Ben clearly didn't know R2 and C3PO in Star Wars. Very odd indeed.

The second and third prequels were weighed down by a need to tie up the backstory, a lack of diversity among the characters, and, as you say an unonvincing romance. I felt they would have done better if they had introduced a proper action heroine to replace the niche filled by Han Solo. Action heroine really did not suit Padme at all - she wasn't a freedom fighter like Leia. It also gave us the 1:5000 female to male ratio that we had in the previous movies, which was odd given that gender roles had changed so much since the 70s.

Although JMS can be infuriating sometimes at least he is often happy to allude to events and leave them to the viewers imaginations. Lucas should have given us exciting stories taking place around the time of the Empire's rise, not focused on the rise itself. It would have freed them up to tell a decent story where Anakin and Obi Wan are relatively minor players. Oh well.

 

[1bulma1]

no its not, because it a movie...JJ and his crew needed two hours to fit in a whole season of 22 episodes, so I think Kirk getting captain was quite realistic because it’s a movie.

Also pike made him first officer and spock gave up been captain so it is only fair that Kirk gets it.



its time people forget star wars prequels, however what sucked the most about the prequels was Hayden Christensen acting

 

[Mr_Homn]

its time people forget star wars prequels, however what sucked the most about the prequels was Hayden Christensen acting

he's been pretty good in other movies i've seen him in. I'd say george lucas failed him as a director. He simply did not direct. every actor who has ever worked with him said the same thing. all he says is "faster, more intense" and pretty much nothing else. He also wrote very clunky and cheesy dialogue. not even cheesy in the original trilogy way. it was a different type of cheesy. an "i don't like sand" cheesy. yechh. He's a creative man who is seemingly incapable of writing half way decent dialogue or giving proper direction. His obsession with filling the screen with CGI and filming everything on a blue screen doesn't help the actors any.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Yeah, I think Hayden did a good job. The difference in the dialogue he was given between II and III shows that he can act, but damn was the dialogue in Ep. II awful! I really felt for him and Natalie Portman having to read that crap.

 

[Pauln6]

Also pike made him first officer and spock gave up been captain so it is only fair that Kirk gets it.

Its time people forget star wars prequels, however what sucked the most about the prequels was Hayden Christensen acting

Bless your sweet naivete but the Enterprise isn't a microcosm. Another experienced commander could have been promoted from outside the ship. It isn't fair that Kirk, a lieutenant fresh out of the acadamy gets to captain a starship as opposed to somebody who has 20 years of experience. One other mistake was making Spock Pike's permanent first officer instead of Number One. Not only did it deprive us of the only female who would have been in a command position, it gave Spock no tangible reward in spite of his command decisions leading Kirk to succeed.

All the jedi in the prequels were required to be calm and zen-like. McGregor and Frank Oz could pull it off. Christiansen and Jackson really couldn't. They can act; they just couldn't act zen-like without coming across as really wooden. And yeah the dialogue really didn't help.

 

[Yevetha]

Its time people forget star wars prequels, however what sucked the most about the prequels was Hayden Christensen acting

He can act, the problem is that George hates actors.

 

[F. King Daniel]

What about Spock Prime? He's heading up the colony for the surviving Vulcans, so he's already a man of influence. And he's a mind-meld away from showing all TPTB what a great commander Kirk can be - and should be but for Nero's interference. And after Kirk saved the world in his first mission...

 

[Pauln6]

What about Spock Prime? He's heading up the colony for the surviving Vulcans, so he's already a man of influence. And he's a mind-meld away from showing all TPTB what a great commander Kirk can be - and should be but for Nero's interference. And after Kirk saved the world in his first mission...

That doesn't quite gel though. Spock Prime knows full well the events that led Kirk Prime to be the man he was and the captain he was. And of course, Kirk Prime WASN'T a captain of a starship at this point in time in the Prime Universe.

 

[F. King Daniel]

But he saved the world in his first mission. He very much proved that he's got it in him.

And we don't know how old Kirk Prime was when he became captain. We only have a guess from an old, non-canon novel (Enterprise: The First Adventure) which says 28 and old comics that say he captained the USS Saladin prior to the Enterprise which would put his promotion even younger.

 

[Pauln6]

But he saved the world in his first mission. He very much proved that he's got it in him.

And we don't know how old Kirk Prime was when he became captain. We only have a guess from an old, non-canon novel (Enterprise: The First Adventure) which says 28 and old comics that say he captained the USS Saladin prior to the Enterprise which would put his promotion even younger.

Kirk didn't save the world. Kirk and Spock saved the world with the assistance of Scotty ans Sulu. Plus, if Kirk had been in command, Spock would have had to follow his initial orders and they would have pursued Nero without Scotty's help and without the additional information from Spock Prime that was needed to save the day. If Kirk had been in command the mission would have failed. Kirk's judgment alone was NOT good. He was too impetuous. He needs more experience before being placed in charge.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

But he saved the world in his first mission. He very much proved that he's got it in him.

And we don't know how old Kirk Prime was when he became captain. We only have a guess from an old, non-canon novel (Enterprise: The First Adventure) which says 28 and old comics that say he captained the USS Saladin prior to the Enterprise which would put his promotion even younger.

At the beginning of the next movie we find out that after a few months all the crew is disappointed with Kirk after the hype about how great he is. Scotty especially - the turbolift doesn't even go to Kirk's upper floors, and guess whose job it is to fix it?

 

[Timo]

That would be fun enough. Our TOS Kirk seemed to be a humble and hard-working young perfectionist who suddenly got his own starship and went on to become a Federation-wide celebrity. Perhaps our JJ Kirk will face the opposite fate: gets fame, gets starship, decides to start working hard because he's not coping?

Certainly a story for the 2010s tastes, just like ST:TMP was the perfect version of Star Trek for the disillusioned late 1970s: Kirk as a military stiff who puts career ahead of Earth security and fumbles because he isn't keeping up with the times...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Yevetha]

I would be nice if he would learn humility during his next mission.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

It isn't fair that Kirk, a lieutenant fresh out of the acadamy gets to captain a starship as opposed to somebody who has 20 years of experience.

And the audience should care about this unknown captain why exactly?

Remember they were trying to get the general audience interested in the film, and their knowledge of Star Trek would be along the lines of that show with Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock. Not captain noname, Mr.Spock, and Lt. Kirk.

One other mistake was making Spock Pike's permanent first officer instead of Number One. Not only did it deprive us of the only female who would have been in a command position,

She showed up in one episode and clips from it in another, so again why should the GENERAL NOT FANS audience care?

Seriously this also applies to any whinning about Gary Mitchell or Carol Marcus or any other character the fans want droped in to satisfy them, becuase this film was made to also please the general audience that doesn't give a crap about canon, or Roddenberry's supposed vision. They just want an enjoyable movie, and on the count Abrams delievered.

 

[Pauln6]

It isn't fair that Kirk, a lieutenant fresh out of the acadamy gets to captain a starship as opposed to somebody who has 20 years of experience.

And the audience should care about this unknown captain why exactly?

Remember they were trying to get the general audience interested in the film, and their knowledge of Star Trek would be along the lines of that show with Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock. Not captain noname, Mr.Spock, and Lt. Kirk.

One other mistake was making Spock Pike's permanent first officer instead of Number One. Not only did it deprive us of the only female who would have been in a command position,

She showed up in one episode and clips from it in another, so again why should the GENERAL NOT FANS audience care?

Seriously this also applies to any whinning about Gary Mitchell or Carol Marcus or any other character the fans want droped in to satisfy them, becuase this film was made to also please the general audience that doesn't give a crap about canon, or Roddenberry's supposed vision. They just want an enjoyable movie, and on the count Abrams delievered.

I found the movie enjoyable but that doesn't mean I have to ignore its faults. Plus, I wasn't responding to a post about whether fans should care, I was responding to a post that said it was 'fair' that Kirk should be made captain because Pike appointed him first officer (to Spock) outside the normal chain of command on the ship. Similarly, the comment about Number One was made because Spock did as much as Kirk and, in fact, prevented Kirk from making a terrible mistake, but he doesn't get a promotion, and he's leap-frogged by a cadet, which doesn't seem fair either.

Fans don't have to care about realism or fairness in Star Trek. I just happen to be one who does.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Spock did as much as Kirk and, in fact, prevented Kirk from making a terrible mistake, but he doesn't get a promotion, and he's leap-frogged by a cadet, which doesn't seem fair either.

After that freak-out on the bridge, I think it's pretty clear why Spock wouldn't deserve a promotion...

 

[Pauln6]

Spock did as much as Kirk and, in fact, prevented Kirk from making a terrible mistake, but he doesn't get a promotion, and he's leap-frogged by a cadet, which doesn't seem fair either.

After that freak-out on the bridge, I think it's pretty clear why Spock wouldn't deserve a promotion...

A momentary lapse after being goaded deliberately following the death of his mother and destruction of his homeworld? There are plenty of Trek characters, Kirk included, who would have reacted in a similar way. That's way less of a disciplinary issue than cupcake starting a brawl in a bar or Kirk's refusal to obey orders and his fight with the security guards earlier in the movie.

If anything it was Spock's decision to waste an escape pod that was less rational and more questionable because several crewmen could very well need that escape pod in the near future. Although I wouldn't view that as a sufficient reason to deny him a promotion.

I think the Galileo 7 was a great episode to display Spock's shortcomings as a leader until he learned to be more flexible later on. I didn't get as many shades of that dynamic in the movie, albiet they did a god job in the time they had.

 

[Sean Aaron]

A momentary lapse after being goaded deliberately following the death of his mother and destruction of his homeworld? There are plenty of Trek characters, Kirk included, who would have reacted in a similar way.

A momentary lapse that resulted in him almost beating someone to death in front of the bridge crew? Sorry, I don't think anyone, Kirk included, would get to shrug that off and get his stripes a couple of months later. Besides, I expect even if it was offered he would have declined for the same reason.