Is it really that super unrealistic Kirks rank jump...
- Thread starter Yevetha
- Start date
Um, what?
I don't think the movie was perfect, by any means, but in picking my battles, this ain't one of em (now lens flares, on the other hand...
) I went into the movie knowing that, someway, somehow, Kirk would be Captain by the end. If it hadn't been done in a fantastical manner, it wouldn't have made a good story.
Yeah, but part of the allure of this psuedo-prequel was seeing how he became Captain. The explanation they gave was pretty half-assed, thus the disappointment.
It would have been less silly if they just ended the last movie with a medal, fleet wide recognition as a badass, and a promotion to commander at the most, and then just opened up the second movie with him as captain or becoming captain. It would have been a lot less hard to swallow than a kid who's barely old enough to drink, who has shown himself to be immature on numerous occasions, getting command of a highly destructive and expensive starship a few days out of the academy. I mean come on, I know it's sci-fi, but how can you actually buy that without completely turning off your brain?
The logic of "well we already know he becomes captain so why not just make him captain for whatever reason" doesn't really make sense to me. That would be like if in the star wars prequels, during the first movie anakin turned into darth vader because someone threw away his action figures as a kid and he snapped. However the star wars prequels sucked ass for many other various reasons.
It would have been less silly if they just ended the last movie with a medal, fleet wide recognition as a badass, and a promotion to commander at the most, and then just opened up the second movie with him as captain or becoming captain. It would have been a lot less hard to swallow than a kid who's barely old enough to drink, who has shown himself to be immature on numerous occasions, getting command of a highly destructive and expensive starship a few days out of the academy. I mean come on, I know it's sci-fi, but how can you actually buy that without completely turning off your brain?
The logic of "well we already know he becomes captain so why not just make him captain for whatever reason" doesn't really make sense to me. That would be like if in the star wars prequels, during the first movie anakin turned into darth vader because someone threw away his action figures as a kid and he snapped. However the star wars prequels sucked ass for many other various reasons.
Last edited:
What are you people smoking? (
)*** Edit: Actually I agree with Pauln6's quote above.
The problem is not what rank NuKirk should receive. The problem is he's given a job he isn’t yet qualified for (shakes head in disbelief).
They could call him a Jellybean for all I care.
Oh sure, but they had a whole movie to do that properly and they stuffed ... er, they didn't manage to accomplish that.
Last edited:
This sums ir up for me, although I would have liked to see the final scene following the medal pretty much the same but with a caption saying 'Three years later' where Kirk strolls onto the bridge and looks around like he's come home and Spock elects to remain on the ship as his first officer.
Anakin's fate in SW3 is also the thing I liked least about the prequel trilogy. It was fine to see him descend into rage-fuelled wickedness but it would have made more sense if Padme had dumped him earlier in the movie. The biggest error in my view was naming him as Darth Vader and explicitly tying the prequel up in a bow ready for the sequel trilogy. We don't need to know who Vader is now, we will find that out in Empire. We don't need to know who Luke and Leia are, we find that our in RotJ. IThe last half an hour of the movie is just revealing spoilers to my future grandchildren. What were they thinking and why haven't they released an anti-spoiler cut of the movie - dammit! Leave Anakin burning on the side of the volcano as his final scene and move on. Why do they think that modern movie audiences need things spelled out so explicity?
Yeah, so what's wrong with that? All I was saying was that fiction is fiction. It is, by definition not real.
Probably because the current generation suffers from extreme ADD and spelling things out is the only way they can understand?
Perhaps but would it not be channelling the true spirit of Trek to show them a better way?
It's an example of the kind of nonsensical hypothetical people here resort to when the discussion of what's actually happened or likely to happen is unsatisfying.
Your own observational abilities regarding the "current generation" lack acuity or focus. Try harder.
No, it's an example of my reaction to claims like "It's science fiction, of course it is unrealistic".* Just because they fly at warp speed doesn't mean that other things can or should be unrealistic. That goes for physical things (like humans being able to breath in a vacuum) and social stuff (like promoting an insubordinate cadet to Captain of a flag ship after one mission that involved a lot of lucky shots). Picard laughing at the death of his brother and nephew in Generations would have been unrealistic, but okay, because "it's fiction"? "It's unrealistic because it's fiction" simply is a nonsensical argument.
Like Mr_Homm that, that is a cop out, because you can apply the same thing to ANYTHING that bugs someone in a work of fiction. "Anything goes", that means that any unrealistic event or decision is free of subjective criticism. It's similar to other cop outs like "Well, the event happened / the character did it because the plot requires it."
* And it's an example of you making yet another attempt of a drive-by but without actually having paid attention to what was really said.
Last edited:
I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. You said "Um, what?", well, THAT was what.
Yes, but Kirk didn't have to have the *rank* of Captain to have the *position* of captain. The final scene could just as easily have been something like Admiral Barnett saying "James T. Kirk, you are hereby promoted to the rank of Lieutenant Commander and ordered to assume command of USS Enterprise" or some such thing. Kirk would still be called Captain by position, he just wouldn't have the RANK yet.
And don't even try to tell me this would confuse viewers. Screw 'em. They'll adapt.
Perhaps that is a more plausible explanation, but it's not a concise or tight enough explanation for storytelling purposes since yes, some might not understand.
Like I said, SCREW THEM. If they don't understand, they can be MADE to understand. It would only take one or two lines to do what I described.
Yes, but Kirk didn't have to have the *rank* of Captain to have the *position* of captain. The final scene could just as easily have been something like Admiral Barnett saying "James T. Kirk, you are hereby promoted to the rank of Lieutenant Commander and ordered to assume command of USS Enterprise" or some such thing. Kirk would still be called Captain by position, he just wouldn't have the RANK yet.
And don't even try to tell me this would confuse viewers. Screw 'em. They'll adapt.
Perhaps that is a more plausible explanation, but it's not a concise or tight enough explanation for storytelling purposes since yes, some might not understand.
Like I said, SCREW THEM. If they don't understand, they can be MADE to understand. It would only take one or two lines to do what I described.
People have issues with the fact that he is in command of the ship. The rank doesn't matter.
^ I am of the opposite opinion. I actually think it sort of makes sense that Kirk could be the captain. Just not *A* Captain. Those two don't have to go together! 
Lol. Nah. While I didn't like the lens flares I didn't dislike them either. They've certainly give us a lot of cheap jokes.
