Spock's Rank?

[cblmc1296]

Once again, my aging gray matter is doing me in. There was a time when I would have known the answer to this. Is it ever established through any dialog, voice-over, or on-screen graphic that Spock's rank is Commander?

I ask because in the earliest first season episodes he wears Commander's braids but in Court Martial (which was produced about halfway through that season and aired almost two thirds of the way through) the Star Base 11 computer identifies his service rank as Lt. Commander.

I've always prided myself on "in-universe" knowledge but I'm getting senile. Help! Thanks! :-)


\\//_ LLAP

 

[Wingsley]

In Year 2's "Amok Time" the unseen voice of Vulcan Space Central responds to Kirk's hail, and asks "Is Commander Spock with you?" Nobody corrected the Vulcan.

Other than that, the two references from Year 1, ("Court Martial", which you already mentioned, and also "Tomorrow is Yesterday," when Kirk first introduces Lt. Cmdr. Spock to Capt. Christopher) both seem to suggest Spock was still a "lite commander" until some point shortly thereafter.

Looks like another CDST (Contradictions and Discontinuity in STAR TREK) goof, probably the result of poor planning on the part of the show's staff.

 

[scotpens]

Obviously, sometime between seasons one and two, Spock got a promotion.

 

[cblmc1296]

Obviously, sometime between seasons one and two, Spock got a promotion.

Yep. What threw me was the two solid gold braids on his sleeves. Yet, I could swear I remembered seeing him with true Lt. Commander's stripes at some point in the series. I think I was imaging it though. I went all the way back to The Corbomite Maneuver and he had two solid braids. Oh well ... CDST as Wingsley pointed out. BTW, thanks Wingsley!

\\//_ LLAP

 

[BillJ]

I'm pretty sure he's referred to as 'Commander' in The Enterprise Incident.

 

[Wingsley]

What about during his recitation in the self-destruct sequence in "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield"? Does Spock invoke his rank then? Does anyone have it handy on tape or disc?

 

[BillJ]

What about during his recitation in the self-destruct sequence in "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield"? Does Spock invoke his rank then? Does anyone have it handy on tape or disc?

Right you are...

This is Commander Spock, science officer. Destruct sequence number two, code one, one A, two B.

 

[Wingsley]

So, from this, we can assume that Spock may have started out under Kirk as a LCDR, and may have been subsequently promoted to full CDR by "Amok Time".

I have no idea why Spock was not promoted earlier. Could it be that Spock was not the XO at the beginning of the show? It's not clear to me who was the XO in "Where No Man...", and Spock identifies himself as "second officer Spock" in "The Enemy Within" (or was it "The Man Trap"?). This, to me, leaves wiggle room to allow someone unseen to have served as XO early on in Kirk's five-year-mission before Spock took on the duties of "first officer".

 

[cblmc1296]

So, from this, we can assume that Spock may have started out under Kirk as a LCDR, and may have been subsequently promoted to full CDR by "Amok Time".

I have no idea why Spock was not promoted earlier. Could it be that Spock was not the XO at the beginning of the show? It's not clear to me who was the XO in "Where No Man...", and Spock identifies himself as "second officer Spock" in "The Enemy Within" (or was it "The Man Trap"?). This, to me, leaves wiggle room to allow someone unseen to have served as XO early on in Kirk's five-year-mission before Spock took on the duties of "first officer".

An interesting possibility. He was obviously not meant to be First Officer when The Cage was conceived and shot. I don't recall any indication one way or the other in WNMHGB except that he attends the Dept. Heads meeting with Scotty, Sulu, and the doctor - which would stand to reason if he was in charge of the Sciences Dept. but would not imply, necessarily, that he was also XO.

 

[BillJ]

We're probably just looking at a technicality here. The paperwork hadn't caught up to the promotion. Spock was promoted to Commander and wears commander's stripes but officially the paperwork hasn't been approved so he is still technically a Lt. Commander.

 

[BillJ]

So, from this, we can assume that Spock may have started out under Kirk as a LCDR, and may have been subsequently promoted to full CDR by "Amok Time".

I have no idea why Spock was not promoted earlier. Could it be that Spock was not the XO at the beginning of the show? It's not clear to me who was the XO in "Where No Man...", and Spock identifies himself as "second officer Spock" in "The Enemy Within" (or was it "The Man Trap"?). This, to me, leaves wiggle room to allow someone unseen to have served as XO early on in Kirk's five-year-mission before Spock took on the duties of "first officer".

An interesting possibility. He was obviously not meant to be First Officer when The Cage was conceived and shot. I don't recall any indication one way or the other in WNMHGB except that he attends the Dept. Heads meeting with Scotty, Sulu, and the doctor - which would stand to reason if he was in charge of the Sciences Dept. but would not imply, necessarily, that he was also XO.

Except that he's wearing the same division insignia as Kirk in Where No Man Has Gone Before. Spock was a science officer (possibly second officer) in The Cage.

 

[CoveTom]

Also, keep in mind that someone referring to him as "Commander Spock" does not preclude the possibility of him actually being a Lieutenant Commander. It seems fairly common for the Lieutenant Commander rank to be shortened to just Commander in conversation in Starfleet, and I believe I remember hearing that was true of the modern U.S. Navy as well. For another example of this, Picard and others frequently referred to Data as "Commander Data" even though his rank was Lieutenant Commander.

 

[BillJ]

Also, keep in mind that someone referring to him as "Commander Spock" does not preclude the possibility of him actually being a Lieutenant Commander. It seems fairly common for the Lieutenant Commander rank to be shortened to just Commander in conversation in Starfleet, and I believe I remember hearing that was true of the modern U.S. Navy as well. For another example of this, Picard and others frequently referred to Data as "Commander Data" even though his rank was Lieutenant Commander.

Problem being we have Lt. Commanders Scott and McCoy wearing different rank braids than Lt. Commanders Spock and Giotto.

 

[cblmc1296]

So, from this, we can assume that Spock may have started out under Kirk as a LCDR, and may have been subsequently promoted to full CDR by "Amok Time".

I have no idea why Spock was not promoted earlier. Could it be that Spock was not the XO at the beginning of the show? It's not clear to me who was the XO in "Where No Man...", and Spock identifies himself as "second officer Spock" in "The Enemy Within" (or was it "The Man Trap"?). This, to me, leaves wiggle room to allow someone unseen to have served as XO early on in Kirk's five-year-mission before Spock took on the duties of "first officer".

An interesting possibility. He was obviously not meant to be First Officer when The Cage was conceived and shot. I don't recall any indication one way or the other in WNMHGB except that he attends the Dept. Heads meeting with Scotty, Sulu, and the doctor - which would stand to reason if he was in charge of the Sciences Dept. but would not imply, necessarily, that he was also XO.

Except that he's wearing the same division insignia as Kirk in Where No Man Has Gone Before. Spock was a science officer (possibly second officer) in The Cage.

Not to throw a monkey wrench into the works but Kirk does refer to him as Science Officer in WNMHGB. More CDST I suppose. eh?

 

[BillJ]

Not to throw a monkey wrench into the works but Kirk does refer to him as Science Officer in WNMHGB. More CDST I suppose. eh?

We know two things for sure from Where No Man...:

* Spock is identified as 'science officer' by Kirk.
* Only two people have the 'star' symbol on their insignia patches, Kirk and Spock. They also both are wearing the same color tunics.

Now we see Spock stay behind after the staff meeting and consult with Kirk about an appropriate course of action, suggesting they either maroon or kill Mitchell.

I use to think that it was Mitchell who was XO in the episode, but after reviewing it lately I've changed my mind.

 

[Wingsley]

Also, keep in mind that someone referring to him as "Commander Spock" does not preclude the possibility of him actually being a Lieutenant Commander. It seems fairly common for the Lieutenant Commander rank to be shortened to just Commander in conversation in Starfleet, and I believe I remember hearing that was true of the modern U.S. Navy as well. For another example of this, Picard and others frequently referred to Data as "Commander Data" even though his rank was Lieutenant Commander.

Hence, we need to rely on "Let That Be..." as the definitive indication that Spock was ultimately promoted to Commander.

Back to the "second officer" thing...

I looked up the transcription of "The Enemy Within", and, sure enough, in the Bridge scene where Spock makes a V.O. log entry, he does indeed identify himself as "Second Officer Spock":

TAKEN FROM "THE ENEMY WITHIN":

Captain's Log, stardate 1673.1. Entry made by Second Officer Spock. Captain Kirk retains command of this vessel, but his force of will rapidly fading. Condition of landing party critical. Transporter unit still under repair.

Sooooooo... at that point Spock was regarding himself as the "second officer", not the first. This leaves a little wiggle room for someone else (unseen) to be serving as the Enterprise's XO. Also note: during Year 1, Kirk repeatedly refers to Spock as "Science Officer", obviously Spock's primary title.

I do not believe Spock is called "first officer" until he makes a log entry in Sickbay (prior to mind-melding with Dr. Van Gelder) in "Dagger of the Mind".

I always thought this was strange, but there could be an explanation. You'll recall that Spock's command of the Galileo in "The Galileo Seven" was regarded as his "first command". It could be that Spock was in training for the XO position and this deep space expedition was a necessary assignment as part of that preparation for promotion. It is not until a few episodes later that Spock is referred to as both "first officer" and "science officer":

TAKEN FROM "COURT MARTIAL":

COMPUTER: Spock, serial number S179-276SP. Service rank, Lieutenant Commander. Position, First officer, science officer. Current assignment, USS Enterprise. Commendations, Vulcanian Scientific Legion of Honour. Awards of valour. Twice decorated by Starfleet command.

Unless I missed something, this is the first time Spock is officially referred to as "first officer" by someone/something else; It could be that Kirk gave him the provisional title prior to "Dagger..." pending the Fleet HQ nod on his promotion sometime later.

 

[CoveTom]

^ I suspect that the early reference to "second officer" was actually meant to imply second-in-command and that particular writer just got the term mixed up. I believe Spock was intended to be the first officer from the time of WNMHGB forward. The only case where he wasn't was in The Cage. But, obviously, since what made it on screen was "second officer," there could be someone else who was first officer at that point.

 

[BillJ]

Sooooooo... at that point Spock was regarding himself as the "second officer", not the first. This leaves a little wiggle room for someone else (unseen) to be serving as the Enterprise's XO. Also note: during Year 1, Kirk repeatedly refers to Spock as "Science Officer", obviously Spock's primary title.

If Mitchell was first officer this would make sense, Spock would technically be second-in-command but not officially first officer.

 

[cblmc1296]

Hmmm... all rather confusing. FWIW, Dagger of the Mind was shot (as well as broadcast) prior to both The Galileo Seven and Court Martial. So, I would say in-universe his log entry in sickbay is the first definitive indication that he is First Officer. One does have to wonder what the producers had in mind with the references to "Second Officer" such as in The Enemy Within (which was produced and aired before any of the other three I mentioned.

 

[Wingsley]

I would not be surprised if the "second officer" remark was a flub, a bit of poor writing by someone who didn't realize what it meant.

Logically, a "second officer" would be third-in-command. So, your line-of-succession would be starting with the captain, then the "first officer" (XO, or "exec" as Kirk called it in TMP), and then "second officer". Throughout most of the series, it appeared that Kirk was, of course, the captain, followed by Spock as first officer, and then Scotty would be the second officer.

Things were confusing in "Where No Man..." Kirk naturally was the CO, and then it wasn't clear if Mitchell was the XO or Spock or maybe Kelso. Interestingly enough, Kirk's log entry upon leaving Delta Vega mentioned that Mitchell was a LCDR.

Go figure.