The beginning of the end?

[Fer]

Televised Trek is dead.

Nah, it's only sleeping.

The current corporate attitude seems to be that Paramount overdid it by having two Trek shows on the air and making movies at the same time. (Jonathan Frakes weighed in on it here.) So now CBS(/Paramount) is playing it more cautious. I'm sure there will be a new Trek TV show someday, but probably not until after they feel the Abramsverse films have run their course.

 

[ProwlAlpha]

I can see the NX-01 becoming a dedicated research vessel for the Federation equivalent of the NOAA.

 

[David cgc]

They could rechristen the ship Dauntless when it's incorporated into the Federation starfleet, solving the little continuity error with Voyager's "Hope and Fear" and the NX-01-A.

 

[Christopher]

The next New Frontier is likely to be the last. The next Vanguard is definitely the last. The Romulan War comes to a close in the next Enterprise novel.

I'm seeing a lot of endings, and not a lot of beginnings. Is this....

The end of Treklit?? [/hyperbole]

Umm... no. Those are all due to totally different factors and processes. The first, if it's true at all, would be hypothetically due to declining sales. The second is the deliberate creative choice of the authors and they had to convince Pocket to go along with ending it. The third is merely the end of a storyline that we knew was finite anyway.

-Just because the Romulan War is ending doesn't rule out more Enterprise storylines set post finale.

Except for the fact that the NX-01 has to be decommissioned by the end of the Earth-Romulan War so as not to conflict with canon, specifically "Trials and Tribble-ations" where it is mentioned that there have been six Federation starships called Enterprise (NCC-1701 to NCC-1701-E).

Why assume the founding of the UFP happens immediately after the end of the war? Going by the Okudachron dates, the E-R War ended in 2160. The UFP is canonically founded in 2161. There's room for another year or so of adventures. It took the DS9 post-finale series 15 novels and a novella to cover one year of story time.

Well, there's a little wiggle room. The dialogue went something like this:

Dulmur: "Which Enterprise? There have been five."

Lucsly: "Six."

The Enterprise-E was never actually mentioned by name. Now of course this was meant to be a reference to the upcoming debut of the E-E in First Contact, but in hindsight it could just as easily have been Lucsly being nit-picky and pointing out to Dulmur that Sisko could have been referring to Archer's Enterprise (especially considering their line of work).

You're forgetting that in First Contact, it was stated that the E-E had already been in service for a whole year. So Lucsly was undoubtedly reminding Dulmur that a sixth UFP Enterprise, the E, had recently been launched.

Why would S&S let it go? They have the same parent company as the televised Trek.

Televised Trek is dead.

CBS owns all Trek. They license the movie rights to Paramount. So even if you were right about televised Trek being dead, that wouldn't matter for starri's question.

 

[ryan123450]

I doubt the Trek book line will go away for a very long time. If for some reason (change in editorial direction, new series discontinuity, whatever) the current Trek-lit continuity ever comes to an end, I'll probably be done with Trek books too.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Why would S&S let it go? They have the same parent company as the televised Trek.

But they still have to want to win the renewal contract each time it expires. If ST lit stops being profitable for S&S, they'll let their exclusive (expensive) license lapse and some other publisher will pitch for the license.

The comics went from Gold Key to Marvel (which was related to Paramount's parent organisation) to DC Comics (not connected to Paramount/Viacom in any way). Malibu Graphics won its own contract (for DS9), was bought out by Marvel and then the whole license went back to Marvel (with the publisher's imprint even being called "Marvel/Paramount"). Marvel then dropped the license as being unprofitable for the amount they had to pay out to Paramount - and WildStorm (DC) picked up the license. Then it went fallow again until TokyoPop and IDW both took up smaller licenses each.

 

[Daddy Todd]

^As far as I can determine, Marvel and Paramount have never been related entities. The "Marvel/Paramount" branded comics were a licensing deal between the movie studio and the comics publisher.

Had there been any kind of corporate relationship, I imagine a whole lot more Marvel movies would've come out from Paramount Pictures.

 

[Christopher]

^As far as I can determine, Marvel and Paramount have never been related entities. The "Marvel/Paramount" branded comics were a licensing deal between the movie studio and the comics publisher.

Yes, you're right. It was only a licensing relationship.

 

[zar]

They could rechristen the ship Dauntless when it's incorporated into the Federation starfleet, solving the little continuity error with Voyager's "Hope and Fear" and the NX-01-A.

But... Dauntless was a fake. It's not a continuity error because there was no evidence that the name and registry were based on a real Federation ship.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Had there been any kind of corporate relationship

It seemed to me they were connected - but perhaps only vaguely? - because I recall talk in the comics press at the time where Paramount was preferring that Marvel had been holding the license at a time when DC Comics was doing so well with ST. Then Malibu came out of left field and grabbed the DS9 rights. Marvel then bought out Malibu, which gave them an "in" on the ST rights. Marvel had lots of financial problems at one point. I thought there was a Viacom connection at one point, or maybe that Viacom was thinking of bailing out Marvel from its looming bankruptcy?

The Marvel/Paramount imprint started when the first "Mission: Impossible" movie was looming, but I was under the impression that Marvel and Paramount were related in some corporate way when TMP came out, in the same way that Simon & Schuster and Paramount were related.


TMP in "Amazing Spider-Man" by Therin of Andor, on Flickr

 

[Christopher]

^No, the TMP reference in Spider-Man results from the same cause as the later Trek/Marvel crossovers: the fact that Marvel had licensed the rights to publish Trek fiction during the time in question. That allowed them not only to publish a Trek comic, but to mention ST in their other comics (also, that Spidey comic was written by Marv Wolfman, who edited Marvel's Trek comic at the time). It's the same reason that the '60s Batman series was able to do a crossover episode with The Green Hornet -- the two creations were owned by separate companies, but 20th Century Fox was licensed to produce TV shows based on both, and so that allowed a crossover even without any direct relationship between the respective owners. (Indeed, convoluted licensing issues like that are the very reason that Batman hasn't been released on DVD.)

 

[David cgc]

They could rechristen the ship Dauntless when it's incorporated into the Federation starfleet, solving the little continuity error with Voyager's "Hope and Fear" and the NX-01-A.

But... Dauntless was a fake. It's not a continuity error because there was no evidence that the name and registry were based on a real Federation ship.

Wouldn't that have been a bit of a giveaway? It'd be one of the few ways to make an unknown ship and number at least a little verifiable, in fact. And it's not like Arturis made any other blatant mistakes in his forgery.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

^ And even then, it's not exactly a given that every ship in the United Earth fleet will automatically become part of the Federation Starfleet. (Federation member worlds don't have their indigenous military forces simply vanish, after all. Most of them are absorbed into the Fed Starfleet, but not ALL.) This may be a stretch, but perhaps the NX-01 is one of the ships that won't.

Its shaping up that way, they seem to be showing the inadequacey of the NX class to deal with problems for much longer and designing new series of starships.

The Federation is probably going to be founded in the books with brand new classes, the old Daedalus and the remaining NX's (which is pretty much the Enterprise now) around but ceremonially.

-Just because the Romulan War is ending doesn't rule out more Enterprise storylines set post finale.

Except for the fact that the NX-01 has to be decommissioned by the end of the Earth-Romulan War so as not to conflict with canon, specifically "Trials and Tribble-ations" where it is mentioned that there have been six Federation starships called Enterprise (NCC-1701 to NCC-1701-E).

Unless the post-war ENT novels are planning to split the crew up and have storylines that bring them together or follow their individual career paths, I don't see the line going anywhere. The TV series probably would have ended with the founding ceremony itself, or with the opening of the war and allowing a couple of movies to tell the story of the war.

^ And even then, it's not exactly a given that every ship in the United Earth fleet will automatically become part of the Federation Starfleet. (Federation member worlds don't have their indigenous military forces simply vanish, after all. Most of them are absorbed into the Fed Starfleet, but not ALL.) This may be a stretch, but perhaps the NX-01 is one of the ships that won't.

Its shaping up that way, they seem to be showing the inadequacey of the NX class to deal with problems for much longer and designing new series of starships.

The Federation is probably going to be founded in the books with brand new classes, the old Daedalus and the remaining NX's (which is pretty much the Enterprise now) around but ceremonially.

Indistinguishable from Magic says otherwise.

 

[EmperorKalan]

^ And even then, it's not exactly a given that every ship in the United Earth fleet will automatically become part of the Federation Starfleet. (Federation member worlds don't have their indigenous military forces simply vanish, after all. Most of them are absorbed into the Fed Starfleet, but not ALL.) This may be a stretch, but perhaps the NX-01 is one of the ships that won't.

Its shaping up that way, they seem to be showing the inadequacey of the NX class to deal with problems for much longer and designing new series of starships.

The Federation is probably going to be founded in the books with brand new classes, the old Daedalus and the remaining NX's (which is pretty much the Enterprise now) around but ceremonially.

^ And even then, it's not exactly a given that every ship in the United Earth fleet will automatically become part of the Federation Starfleet. (Federation member worlds don't have their indigenous military forces simply vanish, after all. Most of them are absorbed into the Fed Starfleet, but not ALL.) This may be a stretch, but perhaps the NX-01 is one of the ships that won't.

Its shaping up that way, they seem to be showing the inadequacey of the NX class to deal with problems for much longer and designing new series of starships.

The Federation is probably going to be founded in the books with brand new classes, the old Daedalus and the remaining NX's (which is pretty much the Enterprise now) around but ceremonially.

Indistinguishable from Magic says otherwise.

There's always the old standby: just ignoring an inconvenient throwaway detail and proceeding with the larger storyline.

Not exactly my first choice, but I'm not the one who would be deciding such a thing anyway.

 

[Christopher]

Keep in mind that the Excelsior was originally NX-2000. In the Federation era, NX is a designation for prototype ships of new classes. It's not a reference to the "NX Class" used by Earth Starfleet. (In fact, NX-01 Enterprise was no doubt called that by the creators because it was an experimental prototype as well. Extending the NX designation to the entire class seems to have been a retcon.)

 

[BrotherBenny]

Keep in mind that the Excelsior was originally NX-2000. In the Federation era, NX is a designation for prototype ships of new classes. It's not a reference to the "NX Class" used by Earth Starfleet. (In fact, NX-01 Enterprise was no doubt called that by the creators because it was an experimental prototype as well. Extending the NX designation to the entire class seems to have been a retcon.)

It was an experimental class, the first to have the warp 5 engines. Unlike the Intrepid and the others which were presumably other classes and may have had NCC designations. We haven't got any details to go on in that regard.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Keep in mind that the Excelsior was originally NX-2000. In the Federation era, NX is a designation for prototype ships of new classes. It's not a reference to the "NX Class" used by Earth Starfleet. (In fact, NX-01 Enterprise was no doubt called that by the creators because it was an experimental prototype as well. Extending the NX designation to the entire class seems to have been a retcon.)

It was an experimental class, the first to have the warp 5 engines. Unlike the Intrepid and the others which were presumably other classes and may have had NCC designations. We haven't got any details to go on in that regard.

Well in Enterprise I blieve the other ships had different two letter things on there ships, I believe one was NV.

Also Indistinguishable from Magic had NCC as a post Federation founding thing.

 

[Christopher]

Yup, like I said, retcon. The original idea was that it was designated NX because the Warp 5 engine was a prototype. But then we started hearing about NV and other letter classes, which muddied the issue. Hence this misconception I think I'm hearing in this thread that the Dauntless's designation somehow has to be interpreted as a specific reference to Archer's ship rather than simply a designation for a prototype class.

 

[David cgc]

Well, it's not the "NX-" so much as the "-A" that does it. In any event, there are a dozen ways to ignore it, but it might be a slick way to subvert TATV one more time. Maybe in a way that doesn't just make things worse this time...

 

[zar]

They could rechristen the ship Dauntless when it's incorporated into the Federation starfleet, solving the little continuity error with Voyager's "Hope and Fear" and the NX-01-A.

But... Dauntless was a fake. It's not a continuity error because there was no evidence that the name and registry were based on a real Federation ship.

Wouldn't that have been a bit of a giveaway? It'd be one of the few ways to make an unknown ship and number at least a little verifiable, in fact. And it's not like Arturis made any other blatant mistakes in his forgery.

But it wasn't verifiable because Voyager didn't know what Starfleet had been up to for the past X years, and they couldn't have cross-referenced the registry with current ships. Likewise, Arturis couldn't have had any current alpha quadrant information.

So even if they thought the registry was odd, they couldn't check it, and in the face of evidence like a Starfleet warp signature and an interior full of Starfleet interface consoles, that curiosity would hardly be enough to tip them off.