I wish Kirsten luck, she may need it.
Kestrel,
How dare you bring facts into this discussion! They have no place here!
Signed,
A delusional, militant Janeway fan.![]()
I hope she didn't get scared away...
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^^I think we had a thread on that last year. That was my first exposure to the term.
Oh Kestral has facts but he ignores the whole point of the statement and concentrates on what he believes will get him the most mileage twisting what I said just a little. I am talking about characters from the Television and Movies as they have been translated by Trek Lit. The appearance is very sexist.
Ezri isn't in the position to give orders to any of the male Main characters that come from the television series or the Movies.
He also pretty much made my point when he pointed out we are looking at a fourteen year time frame, plus the years tacked onto the end by Trek Literature.
You are reading what I said wrong (we are talking about Trek Literature), the only characters I was counting were the main characters from the NG era series and since you all don’t know the difference from a main character and a recurring character I will give you the list. These are main characters that are active at the end of the NG movie era. To simplify for you the main characters from NG to the end of NG, DS9 to the end of DS9, Voyager to the end of Voyager and then to the end of Nemesis.
I was also referring to promotions given only after the filmed versions, those given only by Trek Lit authors, so Janeway’s promotion doesn’t count because we “SAW” it. You put “on screen” not me, I was referring to only promotions given within Trek Literature. So you can throw out all your list because those were on screen promotions, or they were recurring characters, not main characters.
Thank you for defining your terms and explaining that you're only talking within the context of TrekLit itself.
However, I reject your statement that only onscreeen "credited" characters count and reject your list. Because, since we're talking about TrekLit, you have to take into account the fact that it's a different medium and there are different main characters. You can't simply reject the "New Frontier" book series, which has been going for 14 years. Fourteen. Years. That's as long as Deep Space Nine and Voyager put together, and while the volume of material's not as great (due to being a book series) it's become a staple of Pocket's Trek Literature. The Star Trek: Starfleet Corps of Engineers was published from 2000 to 2008 and has 74 novellas to its name; it's no longer published but had an important role in TrekLit as well. Likewise the DS9 Relaunch spans (thus far) 19 novels in which Ro Laren was/is a primary character.
It is Trek Literature that has the problem with writing female characters, it is Trek Literature that marginalizes female main characters. Recurring characters and one shot characters even if we see them on screen are today more the characters of Trek Literature, and not the Main characters of the series. And therefore Shelby is a character of words and paper, as is Sonya Gomez and Ro Laren.
It’s very hard to bring a character to life with only words and paper, and it takes the willingness of the reader to complete that circle.
That's just ridiculous. You're aware that - within the Prime universe of TrekLit - the President of the Federation is a woman? And her Chief of Staff? Anyway, words and paper's all we got. They're not going to make more onscreen Trek with these 24th Century characters... anymore! Even if Janeway somehow does appear on screen again (unlikely) she'll be recast. Within the context of TrekLit, all characters are words and paper. And within the context of TrekLit your listing of "main characters" doesn't apply. Don't tell me the characters that weren't credited during the run of DS9 "don't count" in the Relaunch.
Oh, which reminds me, I forgot Christine Vale, XO of Titan and a main character within that series. So make that at least five main characters (within the context of TrekLit!) that are female and have been promoted.
Ezri Dax is the darling of Trek Lit, but even she is put off on her own ship were she cannot give orders to any of the males. Janeway had to be gotten rid of because she was in the position where she could and horrors, she actually did give Picard orders.
Now you're just being silly. When did being put on her own ship become a bad thing? And she does give orders to the males, obviously. You may not know this, but her XO on Aventine is Sam Bowers, one of the main characters from the DS9 Relaunch. Also, she went toe-to-toe with Picard in Destiny and, rather than backing down, convinced him to go along with the plan she (and another female Captain, Erika Hernandez) came up with. In fact if anything, the male "leading Captains" (Picard and Riker) were relatively useless compared to the female captains (Dax and Hernandez) in that trilogy. So that dog don't hunt.
Lest we all forget, Trek Lit is the ONLY place that we can see new and recurring characters. When certain fan groups refuse to purchase and or support Trek Lit because they do not contain ONE character, then they add to the decline of new Trek fiction.
Well, most novels are set in the Prime continuity, that's a given. But who knows, they may well go back to that 'verse.
There's also the Myriad Universes collections and the surely aforementioned "Places of Exile." It's unlikely to be followed up on specifically, but the concept is limitless by its nature. I've no idea if there's plans to do Myriad Universes stories, but I really really hope they do. So the mechanic you're suggesting does exist.![]()
if you bring Janeway back, i swear i will never buy another VOY novel again. in fact, i might stop buying all 24C novels and only buy Vanguard.
Well, most novels are set in the Prime continuity, that's a given. But who knows, they may well go back to that 'verse.
There's also the Myriad Universes collections and the surely aforementioned "Places of Exile." It's unlikely to be followed up on specifically, but the concept is limitless by its nature. I've no idea if there's plans to do Myriad Universes stories, but I really really hope they do. So the mechanic you're suggesting does exist.![]()
I wish they would, too, but I'm not holding my breath. Out of three anthologies (nine stories/novelettes), only one was Voyager, and I thought it was mediocre, at best, just another "oops, we're going to have to settle somewhere" story that has been done better countless times in fanfic. Plus, I thought the Janeway was pretty much the Pocket Book stereotype--arrogant, controlling, cold, distant. If they write more, I hope someone writes it who can capture the more complex Janeway that I saw on the screen (and I think Beyer could easily do it).![]()
In the book she commands the USS Tucker on Starfleet's annual survey of the Hobus Nebula, and gives us a nice technobabble-rich account of how STXI's impossible supernova was impossible. 30 years later, Starfleet still don't have a clue what happened.^^I looked through the Star Trek: Online book and, while I realize that she's still alive in it, I had the dickens of a time finding her. She's alive, but we aren't hearing about her much.
if you bring Janeway back, i swear i will never buy another VOY novel again. in fact, i might stop buying all 24C novels and only buy Vanguard.
Why do you feel so threatened by Janeway that you would want to deny her fans of her return?
I've been glib towards the "Bring Back Janeway" crowd because of the pure fact they just cannot act the way the act and have a firm grasp of reality.
I've been glib towards the "Bring Back Janeway" crowd because of the pure fact they just cannot act the way the act and have a firm grasp of reality.
Look, there are people out there shouting so loud the rest of us aren't even being heard. By "crowd" you actually mean a few people out of a whole hell of a lot more. Beyer never responds to anyone except the people making the most fuss and the back-and-forth quote wars hide any other discussion.
Do you guys just skim 80% of posts in threads like this or something so that you can keep this weird idea of a bunch of frothy-mouthed fangirls alive in your heads?
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