The Downside of Talos IV

[baxart]

With the dreams the Talosians gave Captain Pike they also gave him nightmares.


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[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ What in the name of Sir George Steinbrenner was THAT?

 

[baxart]

Yes, that really is Jeffery Hunter and Phyllis Diller in The Private Navy of Sgt. O'Farrell
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063459/

 

[Green Shirt]

And his wife thought STAR TREK WAS BAD for his career???

 

[scotpens]

Boy, Hollywood is a tough town. You do one bad movie and they nail you to the cross.

 

[Maurice]

HI-larious!

 

[Gary7]

Wow... who'd have thought it? Shatner (singing) and Nimoy (Bilbo Baggins) both did something well worth regretting... didn't think Hunter had one of these skeletons in his closet, too.

 

[RandyS]

And his wife thought STAR TREK WAS BAD for his career???

Indeed.

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

I often wonder how Star Trek would have fared if Hunter had stayed on as Captain. Better, same, or worse?

 

[Saxman1]

Hard to say. Maybe Hunter wouldn't have killed his liver from alcoholism as quickly. He certainly seemed a more serious captain than Shatner, but that may have been the way he was directed or the requirements of "The Cage."

 

[RandyS]

I often wonder how Star Trek would have fared if Hunter had stayed on as Captain. Better, same, or worse?

Season one of TNG shows us this.

 

[plynch]

I often wonder how Star Trek would have fared if Hunter had stayed on as Captain. Better, same, or worse?

Season one of TNG shows us this.

A. That's funny.

B. I think there's a thread on that question, with a good case made that the character is especially pensive in that ep, and wouldn't be so, in usual ones.

 

[RandyS]

I often wonder how Star Trek would have fared if Hunter had stayed on as Captain. Better, same, or worse?

Season one of TNG shows us this.

A. That's funny.

B. I think there's a thread on that question, with a good case made that the character is especially pensive in that ep, and wouldn't be so, in usual ones.

Well thanks, but I wasn't trying to be funny. I was, however, expressing what I saw in the early TNG episodes, in which, it seems to me that the writers (or maybe Roddenberry himself, I don't know) were taking the original idea for Star Trek, which was presented in "The Cage" and using it as the basis for TNG.

This comes out in the form of the "engage" command, the use of "Number One" as a form of address for the First Officer. The fact that the captain is unable to express any emotion unless it's a negative one, and how he seems to look down his nose at his crew. And finally, the purely superficial Captain "Pi", "Pike", "Picard".

I doubt these coincdendences were accidental.

 

[CoveTom]

^ While it's definitely true that early TNG bears some similarities to "The Cage," I think it's actually closer to Roddenberry's concepts for "Star Trek: Phase II" and to some degree TMP. The Picard/Riker dynamic is lifted almost exactly from what the Kirk/Decker dynamic was supposed to be. The Troi character is modeled on Ilia and the Riker/Troi romance comes from Decker/Ilia. And so forth. The list goes on greatly. Roddenberry, using much of the work of David Gerrold, hoped to correct many of the problems of TOS with Phase II, and he later incorporated much of that into TNG.

 

[Gary7]

Well thanks, but I wasn't trying to be funny. I was, however, expressing what I saw in the early TNG episodes, in which, it seems to me that the writers (or maybe Roddenberry himself, I don't know) were taking the original idea for Star Trek, which was presented in "The Cage" and using it as the basis for TNG.

This comes out in the form of the "engage" command, the use of "Number One" as a form of address for the First Officer. The fact that the captain is unable to express any emotion unless it's a negative one, and how he seems to look down his nose at his crew. And finally, the purely superficial Captain "Pi", "Pike", "Picard".

I doubt these coincdendences were accidental.

Randy, this is a great observation. I'd never considered this... and it does indeed seem like the Cage influenced TNG quite a bit. Picard was a bit more stiff and authoritative in the first season. But I take it this was what Roddenberry was trying for... and so, Hunter's portrayal could very well have been due to the same reason, not his choice to make Pike appear as he did. That leads me to think that had Hunter stayed on, he may very well have lightened up and become more appealing to the audience, as Kirk was.

 

[RandyS]

^ While it's definitely true that early TNG bears some similarities to "The Cage," I think it's actually closer to Roddenberry's concepts for "Star Trek: Phase II" and to some degree TMP. The Picard/Riker dynamic is lifted almost exactly from what the Kirk/Decker dynamic was supposed to be. The Troi character is modeled on Ilia and the Riker/Troi romance comes from Decker/Ilia. And so forth. The list goes on greatly. Roddenberry, using much of the work of David Gerrold, hoped to correct many of the problems of TOS with Phase II, and he later incorporated much of that into TNG.

Yes, you're right. I'd forgotten about the TMP connections. Including the most obvious one: the use of the opening theme reused as TNG's opening theme, a retread that I disliked. Personally, I would have used the theme the was put on the Encounter At Farpoint soundtrack, also not one of my favorites, but at least it was distinctive.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I think it's actually closer to Roddenberry's concepts for "Star Trek: Phase II" and to some degree TMP.... The list goes on greatly. Roddenberry, using much of the work of David Gerrold, hoped to correct many of the problems of TOS with Phase II, and he later incorporated much of that into TNG.

The entry of the Gerrold material (from the final part of "World of Star Trek" - such as no captains on landing parties, receiving pads for transports into difficult areas, a focus on the role of the security chief, families on board for long term missions, etc) doesn't really happen until the first writers' bible of TNG.

"Phase II"'s bible didn't really address any of Gerrold's earlier critiques, except maybe a shared focus on the First Officer/Captain (future Riker/Picard) relationship, but that was an essential element because Shatner wasn't committing to more than thirteen episodes as lead actor... until he saw if his movie career was going to happen.

I would have used the theme the was put on the Encounter At Farpoint soundtrack, also not one of my favorites, but at least it was distinctive.

Well, the fact that it's not a favourite is the reason it was ultimately rejected. It's pretty, but it doesn't have the ooomph an opening theme needs. They didn't realise until the last minute, and reusing TMP's fanfare was an emergency solution.