Revisiting Star Trek TOS/TAS...

[RAMA]

^^ You give it a rest. We disagree with something that's been done and all you can do is call us biased and unwilling to look at something else. Yet someone points out what is clearly bad work and you still say we're biased.

You give it a rest. Your own bias is so clearly showing.

And if you find my viewpoint so questionable then why bother posting in this thread since my opinion is so obviously skewed and I can't be trusted to have any sort of objectivity? I'm also clearly deficient because I don't automatically accept everything Paramount ever shat out of its ass.

I don't have a bias, I can at least keep an open mind about the FX without a preconception that it is somehow tainted by being different. No matter what was done, its likely the D7 would look different, whether it was a porthole, more detail, or a more angular look, there were going to be changes. Greg Jein made HUGE changes to the physical model in DS9.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

Wow, I found myself gazing over this several time, this is my single fav shot of the D7 from the TOS-R or TOS for that matter.

Shouldn't this be in the cgi thread?

Sorry, but those look intentional to me..not incomplete. I see a lot more detail on the new cgi models yet they maintain the simplicity of the originals. I have no doubts they could do something like this: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/D5_class But that wasn't the goal at all.

The extra detail you see is some very well-painted image maps, done by an artist who took more care in his work than whoever made the crappy low-poly mesh.

There's more detail on the Elaan D7 as well, it looks more like it was constructed out of metal rather than wood on screen, like the original. I agree that this is a better model, but again, they maintain some of the angular construction at the front of the hull, which I think was mistaken as an "unfinished" model by others earlier in the thread.

Why is it that I'm the only one who wanted to talk about this on the cgi thread? Especially since my references to any FX were in the context of the episode review, rather than separate comments about the FX themselves. I guess if the OP doesn't mind...

RAMA

 

[Maurice]

The Klingon model is low-poly, period. There's no design intent to it. Someone didn't take or have the time to build it properly. I built a mesh of a Klingon ship back in the day and, let me tell you, those compound curves are NOT easy to do or get right. Some may think the remastered version looks better than the physical model, but there's no changing the fact that the 3D mesh is substandard and tessellated. It looks just as fake as the original model, just in a different way.

 

[BillJ]

There's more detail on the Elaan D7 as well, it looks more like it was constructed out of metal rather than wood on screen, like the original. I agree that this is a better model, but again, they maintain some of the angular construction at the front of the hull, which I think was mistaken as an "unfinished" model by others earlier in the thread.

You still haven't explained all the clearly visible polygons on the underside of the model. Was that a design choice too?

 

[Yevetha]

Are there any really good TAS episodes out there?

 

[BillJ]

Are there any really good TAS episodes out there?

Yes.

 

[Yevetha]

For example..

 

[Tallguy]

Give it a rest, it may be iconic, but its Hollywood...endlessly maleable in its plans and designs. I bet you think its heresey they even designed the BOP in STIII, and added the Vorcha in STNG! I am certain you were ready to proclaim a holy war when Greg Jein changed the D7 in DS9! I have no problems with tweaking the D7 in TOS-R, its not like it has an extra nacelle up its ass...Ah the temptation...

RAMA

I'm glad they added the Vorcha because it meant less use of the Bird of Prey and the K'Tinga.

I was less thrilled that everything about the BoP said "Romulan".

Jein's D7 was wonderful changes and all. Was it the original D7? No. But it was a terrific model.

The D7s in TOS-R are just terrible. It's not an artistic decision, it's not "just different". It's not well done. It's very poor. Which is surprising since I'd think that it would be the second thing they started working on after the Enterprise.

I've seen screen shots of the TOS-R team working from Mike McMaster's D7 plans from the 70's. I love McMaster's work, but his plans will not get you a D7 without a LOT of tweaks. (I was shocked.)

Wow, I found myself gazing over this several time, this is my single fav shot of the D7 from the TOS-R or TOS for that matter.

I now think that RAMA may have taken us on the longest troll ride in internet history. Er, congratulations.

 

[RAMA]

The D7s in TOS-R are just terrible. It's not an artistic decision, it's not "just different". It's not well done. It's very poor. Which is surprising since I'd think that it would be the second thing they started working on after the Enterprise.

I've seen screen shots of the TOS-R team working from Mike McMaster's D7 plans from the 70's. I love McMaster's work, but his plans will not get you a D7 without a LOT of tweaks. (I was shocked.)

Along with some other improvements, I'm glad the powder blue color is gone, not becoming of a warrior! I think they "tweaked" it on their own.

When TOS cast member Leonard Nimoy heard about these changes in special effects, Nimoy simply responded "Shame on them" for changing the effects, saying that it was "out-of-bounds" for them to do that. However, after viewing a remastered episode, reportedly he was quoted saying, "I'm amazed."

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

Are there any really good TAS episodes out there?

Slaver Weapon
Yesteryear
How Sharper Than A Serpent's Tooth
Jihad
The Time Trap
The Eye of the Beholder

Those are my favs.

RAMA

 

[Forbin]

There's more detail on the Elaan D7 as well, it looks more like it was constructed out of metal rather than wood on screen, like the original. I agree that this is a better model, but again, they maintain some of the angular construction at the front of the hull, which I think was mistaken as an "unfinished" model by others earlier in the thread.

You still haven't explained all the clearly visible polygons on the underside of the model. Was that a design choice too?

Ooo - not to mention slightly blurry bird markings!

 

[Warped9]

Are there any really good TAS episodes out there?

Yes. After I'm finished with TOS' third season I'll be moving on to revisiting the TAS episodes.

 

[Gov Kodos]

There's more detail on the Elaan D7 as well, it looks more like it was constructed out of metal rather than wood on screen, like the original. I agree that this is a better model, but again, they maintain some of the angular construction at the front of the hull, which I think was mistaken as an "unfinished" model by others earlier in the thread.

You still haven't explained all the clearly visible polygons on the underside of the model. Was that a design choice too?

Ooo - not to mention slightly blurry bird markings!

That warbird just looks like a bad photoshop cut and paste.

 

[Warped9]

“That Which Survives” ***

Kirk, McCoy and Sulu are stranded on an artificial planetoid while the Enterprise is hurled a thousand light years distant.

I rather like this episode, but to quote Scotty: the feel is wrong. More correctly I should say that they do things here mostly right, but it doesn't all add up to a better rating despite the fact that I do enjoy the story.

Spock seems just a bit too stiff and anal...for lack of a better word. And Scotty comes across at times as a little too excitable. That said I like seeing them work together. I liked seeing a woman at the helm in Sulu's absence.

The big questions are really in regard to the artificial planetoid. Why would a race construct an artificial planet instead of just building a base or station on an existing one? If the station's defense are on automatic then why hurl the Enterprise a great distance rather than just destroy the ship? And why does the automatic system use its peculiar way of eliminating what it perceives as intruders? Sadly, the episode ends right when many of those answers should be forthcoming.

Although I liked seeing Spock and Scotty working together since it's a scientific survey that's supposed to be going down to the surface then by all rights Spock should have led the landing party and Kirk remain on board. It's then really a matter of writing to have Scotty figure out what happened to the Enterprise and have him come up with the solution. The rest could have happened pretty much as it did.

Although brief it was a nice bit of continuity to see Dr. MBenga again. It's also one of the few times that someone (Sulu in this case) refers to previous events in earlier episodes.

Anyway like I said I like a lot of the elements that went into this story, but with some tweaking I think it could have been better.

 

[BillJ]

“That Which Survives” ***

Kirk, McCoy and Sulu are stranded on an artificial planetoid while the Enterprise is hurled a thousand light years distant.

Four stars here.

 

[evilnate]

“That Which Survives” ***

Kirk, McCoy and Sulu are stranded on an artificial planetoid while the Enterprise is hurled a thousand light years distant.

I rather like this episode, but to quote Scotty: the feel is wrong. More correctly I should say that they do things here mostly right, but it doesn't all add up to a better rating despite the fact that I do enjoy the story.

Spock seems just a bit too stiff and anal...for lack of a better word. And Scotty comes across at times as a little too excitable. That said I like seeing them work together. I liked seeing a woman at the helm in Sulu's absence.

The big questions are really in regard to the artificial planetoid. Why would a race construct an artificial planet instead of just building a base or station on an existing one? If the station's defense are on automatic then why hurl the Enterprise a great distance rather than just destroy the ship? And why does the automatic system use its peculiar way of eliminating what it perceives as intruders? Sadly, the episode ends right when many of those answers should be forthcoming.

Although I liked seeing Spock and Scotty working together since it's a scientific survey that's supposed to be going down to the surface then by all rights Spock should have led the landing party and Kirk remain on board. It's then really a matter of writing to have Scotty figure out what happened to the Enterprise and have him come up with the solution. The rest could have happened pretty much as it did.

Although brief it was a nice bit of continuity to see Dr. MBenga again. It's also one of the few times that someone (Sulu in this case) refers to previous events in earlier episodes.

Anyway like I said I like a lot of the elements that went into this story, but with some tweaking I think it could have been better.

I like this episode as well, maybe even more than you do. The defense system is creepy, and I think that's the point. It places a premium on fear over brute force and it's efficient. Sort of like a Terminator in it's relentlessness. It's been a while since I've watched this one, but reading this makes me want to revisit it.

 

[Warped9]

“That Which Survives” ***

Kirk, McCoy and Sulu are stranded on an artificial planetoid while the Enterprise is hurled a thousand light years distant.

Four stars here.

Can you elaborate why? I was very tempted to give it four stars (but definately not five) but I had a measure of doubt because, as I said, I liked it but I think it could have been better with some different choices and a little tweaking to the writing.

 

[Warped9]

“That Which Survives” ***

Kirk, McCoy and Sulu are stranded on an artificial planetoid while the Enterprise is hurled a thousand light years distant.

I like this episode as well, maybe even more than you do. The defense system is creepy, and I think that's the point. It places a premium on fear over brute force and it's efficient. Sort of like a Terminator in it's relentlessness. It's been a while since I've watched this one, but reading this makes me want to revisit it.

Yes, it was creepy in that respect. Maybe I was a bit too harsh. Hmm...

 

[HarryM]

I like this one also, pretty solidly entertaining. As far as Spock acting weird, I attribute it to Spock being on his own without McCoy or Kirk to keep him from overdoing it, so he is "feeling his oats" here and letting the Vulcan out.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm not entirely sure about that. I don't know the writing credits for the episode but if it was written by someone new to the series that season then they were probably going off a crude caricatured understanding, Gene Roddenberry wouldn't say anything, and complaints Leonard Nimoy might've had would've fallen on deaf ears.

I'd say Spock wasn't written out of character but exagerrated in character.