What was wrong with "These are the Voyages"

[Reliant Robin]

just don't pretend that ENT didn't produce any worse hours.

This is not true, and I can prove it. Let me tell you of my hatred of the episode Bound. I hate Bound with an intense and firey passion that consumes my soul. Even saying the name makes me itch to have rocks to throw at the screen that brought this episode into my home. After I watched Bound, I had to punish my DVD player for allowing it to play. I had to punish my eyes for watching (I punished them by making them watch it again). I have thought fonder thoughts about the murderers of children. I am convinced its entire existence, from conception to screening, was personally designed just to spite me - no, to test me, because I enjoyed A Night in Sickbay and the Great TV Gods sought to learn if there was any limit to what I would swallow. Bound is like the rock of my TV experience that I have been tied to while crows peck at my entrails for all eternity.

I still like Bound better than TATV.

See?

 

[Noname Given]

And hey, if people care to found and join a TATV Rejection Society, I'm cool with that; by all means ignore it if you like - just don't pretend that ENT didn't produce any worse hours.

The problem is - TATV WASN'T an Enterprise episode. It was a TNG episode made 12 years later using Enterprise's production budget. Nothing more.

The statement should be - and TNG HAS produced worse hours <--- Which is true when you look back on TNG Season 1, 2, and 7.

 

[Mach5]

The problem is - TATV WASN'T an Enterprise episode. It was a TNG episode made 12 years later using Enterprise's production budget. Nothing more.

The statement should be - and TNG HAS produced worse hours <--- Which is true when you look back on TNG Season 1, 2, and 7.

QFT

 

[JiNX-01]

The problem is - TATV WASN'T an Enterprise episode. It was a TNG episode made 12 years later using Enterprise's production budget. Nothing more.

The statement should be - and TNG HAS produced worse hours <--- Which is true when you look back on TNG Season 1, 2, and 7.

QFT

QFT again.

 

[lurok]

The problem is - TATV WASN'T an Enterprise episode. It was a TNG episode made 12 years later using Enterprise's production budget. Nothing more.

The statement should be - and TNG HAS produced worse hours <--- Which is true when you look back on TNG Season 1, 2, and 7.

QFT

QFT again.

QFT a third time. Having just watched TNG all the way through for first time. And heresy - I don't even think 'The Pegasus' that good an episode, other than it gives Riker a not-very-interesting personal dilemma. I'd read a lot about hate towards TATV even before watched and thought it was hype/hyperbole. But sadly not...

 

[JiNX-01]

^ I actually liked The Pegasus. I think it was one of the better Riker episodes (Shades of Gray *GAG*, First Contact "GAG"), which gave me another reason to hate This Ain't The Valentine. It portrayed Riker as a milquetoast who couldn't make a perfectly obvious decision without taking a lesson from a starship engineer who had been dead for 200 years.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

The problem is - TATV WASN'T an Enterprise episode. It was a TNG episode made 12 years later using Enterprise's production budget. Nothing more.

The statement should be - and TNG HAS produced worse hours <--- Which is true when you look back on TNG Season 1, 2, and 7.

QFT

QFT again.

QFT out the wazoo.

 

[Winterwind]

QFT

QFT again.

QFT out the wazoo.

So would it be a step too far if I said "QFT to infinity and beyond"?

 

[JiNX-01]

QFT again.

QFT out the wazoo.

So would it be a step too far if I said "QFT to infinity and beyond"?

Not at all!

 

[Admiral Shran]

You know, I actually like TNG Season 7. I can see how some people don't, but let's not kid ourselves here - TATV is worse than anything in Season 7. It's the worst episode in the entire freakin' franchise!

I mean, I'll gladly take Threshold over TATV any day of the week and twice on Sundays. THRESHOLD, PEOPLE!

But then again, that might not mean as much as I think it does, as I don't think Threshold was even the worst of VOY.

 

[Mach5]

TATV is worse than anything in Season 7.

Hm, if we think of TATV as just another episode (and forget that it's the finale), then I don't think it's actually as cringe worthy as Sub Rosa (or even Masks), but it's by no means better.

As for Threshold, it is a standalone episode that can easily be ignored (and most often IS). It is guilty of being retarded, nothing more. TATV, however, wrapped up the entire series by ignoring everything that came before it, undid character development and even committed character assassinations (Trip reduced to an uneducated hick, and Hoshi, Travis and Reed reduced to a pack of insensitive assholes, too lazy to earn a single promotion in six years).

 

[Admiral Shran]

Well, hell, I like Masks. It's actually one of my favorites from TNG. I never got all the hate.

I never even got the hate for Sub Rosa. I mean, it's not great (not by any stretch of the imagination, but it's not complete shit either).

As for TATV as a standalone, and not finale, episode - it still fails. As you said, it undoes character development. It also simply does not work as a self-contained story within The Pegasus. It kills a main character for no plausible reason. I mean, hell, Tasha Yar's death had more meaning! And, as has been said, it's not an ENT episode, it's a TNG episode through and through.

If DS9 had an episode where the Federation makes contact with Voyager and the episode focused on Janeway and Seven's reactions to the news of the Dominion War while completely excluding most of the DS9 cast, would we consider that a true DS9 episode? I know I wouldn't.

 

[JiNX-01]

Well, hell, I like Masks. It's actually one of my favorites from TNG. I never got all the hate.

I didn't like Masks. Not so much because it sucked, but because I knew what was going on less than five minutes into the episode. After that, it just became annoying to watch the "best and the brightest" of Starfleet stumbling around for an hour trying to catch up with me. Bleah.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

JiNX your avatar is EXTREMELY YUMMY.

Anyways.. can you believe it, I am forced to watch this piece of shite TNG ep AGAIN tonight because my kid has not seen it and does not believe me that the series ended when we watched Terra Prime. Yeah.

I'm girding my eyes.

 

[Reliant Robin]

Is it a deliberate omission that TATV is the only Ent episode without a review in the trektoday episode guide? Or is it in the TNG section? Maybe they should just put a link to this thread there.

 

[lurok]

What was wrong...

T'Pol wouldn't have allowed THIS

ok, I know it's Riker's fantasy holonovel, but 'haterz gotta hate' And I like Frakes/Riker!...just not in ENT...

 

[number6]

He did freeze the program.

 

[JiNX-01]

JiNX your avatar is EXTREMELY YUMMY.

BIG version in the new Trip worship thread.

Anyways.. can you believe it, I am forced to watch this piece of shite TNG ep AGAIN tonight because my kid has not seen it and does not believe me that the series ended when we watched Terra Prime. Yeah.

I'm girding my eyes.

Oh, dear. I assume you're watching with your child so you can explain that it didn't really happen because it's just a hollow-novel?

 

[Mach5]

He did freeze the program.

Still, I wonder if Doc would have approved...

 

[lurok]

He did freeze the program.

Still, I wonder if Doc would have approved...

Yeah...as if freezing program any better. Knew T'Pol would have gone all tal-shaya on his ass...