Revisiting Star Trek TOS/TAS...

[BillJ]

I don't think you get it...what business do they have being there??? They broke the PD the minute they landed...

RAMA

Since when is landing on a planet breaking the Prime Directive? Or have you forgotten all those duck-blind missions we've seen on Star Trek: The Next Generation?

Not much fun being an explorer if you can't actually explore.

If you don't understand this there is no point disucussing this issue...duck blinds and investigation is permitted, revealing yourself to the pop is not...oh brother...every other action that follows results from this...

RAMA

Now think about the failure rate of the "duck-blind" missions...

Also, is it okay to shoot someone who steps on your lawn?

 

[Warped9]

Starfleet orders Kirk to go there and see what there is to see. No one, not Starfleet, not the scoutship making the inital long distance report or the Enterprise knows what to expect.

And the PD says you're not to reveal who and what you are and where you're actually from. It does not say you cannot interact with them on some limited level.

 

[RAMA]

“The Deadly Years” ****

The landing party contracts a disease similar to rapid aging.

On the face of it it would seem easy to dismiss this episode. These days it's easy to make light of "disease of the week" stories in science fiction television. But back when Star Trek was new it hadn't yet become a familiar routine. Yes, we'd already seen deadly ailments in TOS previously in "The Naked Time" and "Miri," but the story idea hadn't worn out its welcome yet.

What makes this work for me are the performances as members of the landing party slowly fall physically and mentally apart. It isn't enough that they display difficulty in physical movement and the requisite appearance of advanced aging, and also diminishing mental ability, but they also display the crankiness of advanced age as some people fight accepting their deterioration. They can get into a state of denial that they're just not what they used to be. Shatner nails this aspect of aging with his stubbornness, moodiness and even a touch a vanity. Candidly I found watching our heroes fall apart rather moving. It was rather sad and I certainly don't mean that in the pathetic sense. And this was done through a lot of little things and small moments.

I also liked the detail of having the cast wearing slightly larger uniforms to suggest their diminishing physiques.

Although he had the regulations on his side Commodore Stocker really was an idiot. I'd wager that there were at least two people aboard who could have taken commend in place of Kirk, Spock or Scotty: Sulu or Assistant Chief Engineer DeSalle. They certainly would have been a lot safer bet and smarter than Stocker.

Although Kirk mightn't make an issue of it I can well imagine Starfleet brass having an issue with Stocker once they got hold of the reports of what happened after Stocker took command. He not only endangered a valuable frontline starship and its crew, but he could have set off an interstellar war.

Another interesting turn of events is that this time it's the woman who is putting the moves on Kirk, or at least dropping the hints and giving him the "come hither" looks.

I don't really find fault with much in the episode, solid story...my one quibble would be the rapidity of finding the cure....an old TV cliche. **** stars from me

RAMA

 

[BillJ]

And the PD says you're not to reveal who and what you are and where you're actually from. It does not say you cannot interact with them on some limited level.

The hell you say...

 

[BillJ]

“The Deadly Years” ****

The landing party contracts a disease similar to rapid aging.

On the face of it it would seem easy to dismiss this episode. These days it's easy to make light of "disease of the week" stories in science fiction television. But back when Star Trek was new it hadn't yet become a familiar routine. Yes, we'd already seen deadly ailments in TOS previously in "The Naked Time" and "Miri," but the story idea hadn't worn out its welcome yet.

What makes this work for me are the performances as members of the landing party slowly fall physically and mentally apart. It isn't enough that they display difficulty in physical movement and the requisite appearance of advanced aging, and also diminishing mental ability, but they also display the crankiness of advanced age as some people fight accepting their deterioration. They can get into a state of denial that they're just not what they used to be. Shatner nails this aspect of aging with his stubbornness, moodiness and even a touch a vanity. Candidly I found watching our heroes fall apart rather moving. It was rather sad and I certainly don't mean that in the pathetic sense. And this was done through a lot of little things and small moments.

I also liked the detail of having the cast wearing slightly larger uniforms to suggest their diminishing physiques.

Although he had the regulations on his side Commodore Stocker really was an idiot. I'd wager that there were at least two people aboard who could have taken commend in place of Kirk, Spock or Scotty: Sulu or Assistant Chief Engineer DeSalle. They certainly would have been a lot safer bet and smarter than Stocker.

Although Kirk mightn't make an issue of it I can well imagine Starfleet brass having an issue with Stocker once they got hold of the reports of what happened after Stocker took command. He not only endangered a valuable frontline starship and its crew, but he could have set off an interstellar war.

Another interesting turn of events is that this time it's the woman who is putting the moves on Kirk, or at least dropping the hints and giving him the "come hither" looks.

I don't really find fault with much in the episode, solid story...my one quibble would be the rapidity of finding the cure....an old TV cliche. **** stars from me

RAMA

Something we all agree on.

 

[RAMA]

Starfleet orders Kirk to go there and see what there is to see. No one, not Starfleet, not the scoutship making the inital long distance report or the Enterprise knows what to expect.

And the PD says you're not to reveal who and what you are and where you're actually from. It does not say you cannot interact with them on some limited level.

Ah I see...so Kirk came in secretly...dressed as the natives, did some intense studies...THEN decided to break the PD.

RAMA

 

[BillJ]

Starfleet orders Kirk to go there and see what there is to see. No one, not Starfleet, not the scoutship making the inital long distance report or the Enterprise knows what to expect.

And the PD says you're not to reveal who and what you are and where you're actually from. It does not say you cannot interact with them on some limited level.

Ah I see...so Kirk came in secretly...dressed as the natives, did some intense studies...THEN decided to break the PD.

RAMA

Unless clothing is an alien concept to a culture... what's wrong with wearing your uniform? It simply speaks to the fact that your not native to the region.

 

[BillJ]

Face it... the Prime Directive in TOS is NOT the draconian scripture it became in TNG. Which by the way they still figured out how to bend and break when it suited their purpose.

 

[Warped9]

...my one quibble would be the rapidity of finding the cure....an old TV cliche.

RAMA

It isn't just finding the cure, but the rapidity of its effect---literally in minutes. It could have been smarter to have shown Kirk regaining his mental ability quickly while his body took a bit longer. He could have been shown reverting to his old self more slowly and by the end of the episode (or when he appears on the bridge) he still looks somewhat older than his usual self, but his mind is definitely sharper.

Yeah, yeah that wouldn't have been as dramatic or as clear cut, but if he's completely back to normal at the beginning of the next episode then it works.

 

[BillJ]

I think Jean-Luc Picard said it best: "And I say to any creature who may be listening, there can be no justice so long as laws are absolute. Even life itself is an exercise in exceptions."

Why would the Prime Directive be excluded?

 

[RAMA]

I think Jean-Luc Picard said it best: "And I say to any creature who may be listening, there can be no justice so long as laws are absolute. Even life itself is an exercise in exceptions."

Why would the Prime Directive be excluded?

There are definitely cases where the PD can be suspended...no law is an absolute, but callous disregard as in this case is not one of them.

 

[BillJ]

I think Jean-Luc Picard said it best: "And I say to any creature who may be listening, there can be no justice so long as laws are absolute. Even life itself is an exercise in exceptions."

Why would the Prime Directive be excluded?

There are definitely cases where the PD can be suspended...no law is an absolute, but callous disregard as in this case is not one of them.

It isn't callous disregard when the natives and their machine god attempt to kill you.

If you watch the episode you'll see that Vaal is on the offensive right from the beginning... attacking both the Enterprise and the landing party.

Which sparked my earlier question: is it okay to shoot someone for stepping on your lawn?

 

[Warped9]

"I, Mudd" *

A group of androids hijack the Enterprise and intend to "take care" of humanity.

This is one schizophrenic episode. Granted the TOS cast has always been adept with humour, but this thing is so surreal and absurd that it boggles the mind. Yeah, it has some honestly funny moments, but it's just so over-the-top. This is where the show fell on its face.

These androids are nowhere near as nuanced as Roger Corby's androids in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" or as Rayna in "Requiem For Methuselah." They're just a cliche and just played for laughs. And it's hard to take their threat seriously because it's all just so stupid.

Even some of the statements made by the characters are dumb. Spock actually says the androids might pull off thier plan. A mere 200,000 androids against the population of the Federation as well as allied races??? I don't fucking think so. And they obviously don't understand a thing about humans if they think humanity would just roll over and hand over the keys to everything.

Yeah, it's got a number of laughs in it, but it's so stupid that it offends me as a Star Trek fan and as a science fiction fan.

TOS will recover, but if you didn't know better you'd be forgiven for thinking that this was a moment TOS "jumped the shark."


Oh, yeah...and Mudd spelled backwards is d, dum.

 

[Harvey]

One star for "I, Mudd?" I have to totally disagree. It's one of the finest comedic episodes of the series.

"I love you. However, I hate you."

 

[Warped9]

One star for "I, Mudd?" I have to totally disagree. It's one of the finest comedic episodes of the series.

"I love you. However, I hate you."

It has its genuine moments, but they're just not enough, nowhere near enough. This belongs in a Mad magazine, not a Star Trek episode.

I quite liked this episode when I was younger. And while watching it I did smile and laugh in some places. But the rest of the time I was rolling my eyes in embarrassment.

 

[BillJ]

"I, Mudd" *

A group of androids hijack the Enterprise and intend to "take care" of humanity.

I just watched this one the other day... it is pretty bad.

 

[Warped9]

Actually I'm also amused at the thought of what some might think that I actually gave a TOS episode a bad rating.

 

[BillJ]

Actually I'm also amused at the thought of what some might think that I actually gave a TOS episode a bad rating.

I know why I still love TOS. Even when it's bad, which is quite a bit, it's never dull. Even when it's bad I never find myself watching the clock instead of the episode.

 

[number6]

Actually I'm also amused at the thought of what some might think that I actually gave a TOS episode a bad rating.

Not the one I expected.

 

[Warped9]

Actually I'm also amused at the thought of what some might think that I actually gave a TOS episode a bad rating.

I know why I still love TOS. Even when it's bad, which is quite a bit, it's never dull. Even when it's bad I never find myself watching the clock instead of the episode.

To be sure "I, Mudd" is quite funny at times, but in a spoofing kind of way. As a Star Trek story I don't care much for a lot of the thinking behind it.