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Why so much negativity about the RTD?

RavenCWG

Ensign
Red Shirt
I have been rather frustrated and perplexed of late seeing all of the criticism of RTD and his time as head writer for DW coming from so many Who fans, not just on this site, but others as well. Yet these same fans talk about Moffatt as though he is the best thing to ever happen to DW, and are convinced that the direction he is taking the show is vastly superior to the RTD era. I just don't get it!

Personally I think we who are fans of DW owe RTD a debt of gratitude for bring the show back in such a big way, and making it so successful. Granted some of his stories could get a little over-the-top and fanboyish at times, but then again I rather liked that about him. I see him as being to DW what Peter Jackson was to the Lord of the Rings films. Peter Jackson was very much a true fan of Tolkien's work and as such was committed to staying as true to the books as possible and to making movies that would love up to, and exceed, fans' expectations and honor Tolkien's original vision. So too RTD was all about making Doctor Who for its fans. He was always looking for the kinds of stories that he knew DW fans enjoy seeing...such as Daleks fighting Cybermen. He brought heart and soul to DW. He gave us characters that were fun, likeable and dimensional, with families and friends and jobs...in other words, more to their lives then just what was happening on the TARDIS. RTD's stories might not have been overly complex, and at times were a little predictable, but so what, they were fun, exciting (with often just the right amount of suspense/creepiness), and emotionally satisfying.

By contrast, I haven't been nearly as impressed since Moffatt took over the show last year. I have nothing against Moffatt, per say. In fact, he wrote some of my all-time favorite episodes during the RTD years. But now that he is in charge of the overall direction of DW, something very important seems to be sadly lacking. Part of it has to do with the new cast. They rely way too much on zippy one-liners and slapstick antics to get laughs for my taste. To me, they seem excessively silly most of the time, one-dimensional and generally uninteresting. Even the best story fails when you can't relate to the characters and don't really care what happens to them. But even the characters aside, I didn't find most of the stories (with a one or two notable exceptions) last season or so far this season to be all that compelling or well written. The story arcs thus far may seem fairly complex on the surface, but in truth they are actually fairly small stories trying to be far more than they really are by using a lot of hype and cheap gimmicks (i.e. all of the Doctor's adversaries showing up in the last 5 minutes of "The Pandorica Opens" for absolutely no reason, or filming parts of "The Impossible Astronaut" in the middle-of-nowhere Utah.), and with a lot of not-so-subtle clues that have very little payoff once the mystery is finally revealed. As for the stand-alone episodes most of them have either been somewhat boring or haven been filled with lots errors and glaring plot holes.

So anyway, can someone please explain to me what exactly it is that RTD did so wrong to earn him so much criticism, and what it is that Moffatt is doing that is so much better that makes everyone think that he is such a superior head writer?
 
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I agree. Moffat writes brilliant episodes but his hand at series direction is not so sure. Something just has not clicked with his series, it's not the actors or the characters but something is lacking.
 
I've seen it summed up that RTD was good at writing characters and a decent setup man for plots but lousy at finishing that setup. I agree with that.

Moffat... well, I find I liked his work better when he was writing an episode a year. While I quite like Matt Smith and the 11th Doctor, I'm not overly keen on what Moffat has been doing with the series thus far.
 
Maybe I'm giving RTD too much credit here (because I’m sure there were many people responsible for DW’s resurgence), but I always got the impression he thought about Doctor Who as a property/brand as much as a TV show. And I think that’s a good thing.

He thought big - not just in terms of storytelling – but in the expansion of the DW universe. Under his guidance we got two (darn good) spin-offs. Sadly, with the passing of Elizabeth Sladen, we have precious few episodes of SJA left. RTD has made it pretty clear he’s done with science fiction for the time being. Without his direct participation, I fear Miracle Day may be Torchwood’s final outing.

I didn’t always love RTD’s creative decisions, but I appreciate what he managed to accomplish for the brand. I’m not suggesting Moffat create spin-offs just for the sake of creating spin-offs, but I worry DW (as a property) is shrinking. Maybe this is being done intentionally to avoid franchise fatigue, or maybe it’s due to lack of ambition.
 
Both RTD and Moffat have been heavily criticised, both somewhat unfairly and extreme.

Personally speaking I slightly favour Moffat's era so far.

So anyway, can someone please explain to me what exactly it is that RTD did so wrong to earn him so much criticism, and what it is that Moffatt is doing that is so much better that makes everyone think that he is such a superior head writer?

While I did like RTD's era on the whole, I quickly got tired of good portion of his stories and their resolutions. For every Midnight and Turn Left, you had Aliens of London, Rose, New Earth and Love and Monsters. Then there's the nigh lack of subtlety (obvious exception being the brilliantly done black eye that Lucy Saxon had, which was never referred and was perhaps more effective because of it), sometimes overly silly, the repetitive finales, the return of Rose who was supposedly sealed in another universe for good.

It does also sometimes feel like he chucks random ideas into a story (especially finales), change his mind half way through but not actually get rid of the idea.
 
Personally, I have mixed feelings about RTD. Love him for bringing Who back and I really like the more modern take on it (especially the characters) that he gave it. However, his plotting really sucked a lot of the times. There are certain aspect of RTD who that I didn't mind at first but as time went on, well, familiarity bred contempt and these things (deus ex machina or other forms of magical solutions) began to grate over time!

Some are saying that it's going the same way with Moffat. I'm not sure about that. I didn't feel that way during his first season at all. However, I was not thrilled with his opening 2 parter this season. But, that's just one story by him so I think it's too early to say.

Mr Awe
 
My great problem with RTD was that he put his character logic ahead of his plot logic, and as a result both often suffered. He knew the emotional points he wanted to hit, but he didn't construct his stories to reach them. A good example is the "reunion" between Jackie and Pete in "Doomsday," where the story simply stops so that RTD can have his emotional moment. Or the Doctor's extermination in "The Stolen Earth."

RTD, by his own admission, which he talks about in The Writer's Tale, has no interest in a well-structured plot. His stories don't follow any sort of logical progression, and there's little development of ideas, because RTD prefers to write for the moment. He prefers to write stories where no one knows what's coming next. Chekhov's maxim about the gun on the mantelpiece is anathema to RTD, as RTD gleefully throws out gun after gun after gun until he pulls out a piece of plot magic to resolve his story.
 
I like both. RTD's problem was that he was over the top cheesy at times, but I really enjoyed his Who universe. Moffat seems to be episode to episode with very fun plots, but I don't see the cohesiveness of universe in the same way. Some have criticized his plots as being too complicated, but I don't think so.

Either way, there seems to be a tendency to hate whomever is in charge that has been directed at both. Plenty of people are even pining for the good old days of RTD only a little over a year later.
 
Either way, there seems to be a tendency to hate whomever is in charge that has been directed at both. Plenty of people are even pining for the good old days of RTD only a little over a year later.

Heh, yea, and if you look at the posts some of them made a year or so back, you'll see them trashing RTD. <Sigh>
 
I liked RTD Who for:
* great quotable quote lines
* Some great plot ideas
* meaningful characters (mostly)
* making Doctor Who fit for the 21st century
* staying true to so many icons, themes and memes from classic Who
* mostly being stories you could sit down to and know at the end of the night it would be solved
* a 'story arc' so subtle you could completely ignore it if you liked and just go with the plot till the last 2 episodes of the season.

I hated RTD Who for:
* rushed solutions when he'd created a great plot idea and didn't know how to resolve it
* Rosie-Sue being all-perfect like a bad fanfic (trust me - I know a bad fanfic... I wrote a few!)
* Some really crap plots (Love and Monsters is probably my pet hate)
* Being unable to let go - Boomerang-Rose being the biggest issue, no matter how often she was thrown away she came back
* Every-one having to be in love with the Doctor

By comparison I like Moffat Who for:
* Timey-wimeyness being willing to play with time paradox
* having a real human couple in the TARDIS so no falling for the Doctor (even if Karen gets up my nose in 'Confidential')
* A properly 'Doctorish' Doctor who is suitably alien at least some of the time.
* A bit of a break from Daleks, Cybermen, Sontarans, the Master and other revived baddies

I hate Moffat Who for
* Mitres are cool
* being far too clever for its own good
* A story arc so in your face it distracts from or interrupts the story (this season - last wasn't quite so bad)
* being so complex that I'm struggling to keep a grip on caring about the characters
* Biggest gripe: I don't trust him to tie it up at the end of the season. I fear this could run into 2015.
 
RTD's era for the most part is universally acclaimed by fans & critics so I reject the premise that their is so much negativity with his handling of Doctor Who. The minorty may shout louder at times but that doesn't mean much in the end ;)
 
Every producer/Doctor seems to have it's detractors. Believe it or not, people were saying "The magic was gone" and that Doctor Who was getting far too violent and unoriginal by riffing on horror movies back in the early Tom Baker/Phillip Hinchcliffe days. I think the Pertwee era also got some flack for confining the Doctor to earth and changing the tone of the show with UNIT. And despite often being praised as one of the best Doctors, the ratings for the Troughton era weren't great.

Then of course there was a lot of criticism of John Nathan Turner and his Doctors back in the day too.
 
The only thing I didn't like about RTD was the constant 'companion must be in love with the Doctor'. Rose; fine, she did have a strong rapport with him, but Martha as early as Gridlock was way out of left field.

Moffat I've never been a fan of. I've never found his episodes particularly engaging, and his plan for the series should be kept to season by season. The fact the 'Silence will Fall' arc wasn't resolved at the end of season five was a bit of a downer.
 
I've noticed a trend amongst Doctor Who fans (Not all, but generally) that it's cool to like something when they're there, but when they've gone, that like turns into hatred. Best example is Martha. Man how liked was Martha when it was the third season, and then that like for some strange reason turned into negativity when she left. Same thing with RTD. I liked RTD and him introducing me to this great world of Doctor Who, but unfortunately, I might slowly become a minority on that opinion. Oh well.
 
RTD is a fine writer, his flaw is constantly making such EPIC finales involving armies of a squillion Daleks threatening to destroy the universe. But his episodes are always top-notch entertainment, even his finales despite how ridiculous they got.

Moffat is also a fine writer, though he enjoys his time travel kinks a bit too much, and even he is trying to make Doctor Who EPIC, though in a different way than RTD. As opposed to a squillion Daleks, Moffat is thrwoing terms like "game changer" and providing shock value at us like the Doctor getting killed and crafting together a complicated and involving story arc for the season. His episodes are entertaining, though it is possible that some people expect nothin less than the best from Moffat, and as a result when he delivers an average episode, it comes off as seeming more disappointing than it actually is.

Truthfully, there isn't really anything wrong with either of them. Nobody's perfect and everyone has their flaws. And the truth of the matter is, they've both done a great service to the Doctor Who franchise and have contributed to the success it now enjoys. But as the showrunners, they're the natural targets for fandom's scorn. A situation I'm sure someone like Rick Berman or Brannon Braga can relate to.
 
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