Did Anyone Else LOL When the Jem Shipped Killed Red Squad
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I would be very shocked if that's how it would work in the real military, if a unit was discovered that had previously been cut off from reinforcements and a higher-ranking officer showed up.
It's how 24th century starfleet ranks work. Nog did not outrank those guys.
Proof: "Valiant".
Proof: "Valiant".
And what do we have to prove that? Watters' word? Forgive me for not considering him the most credible character. 
As for Nog's reaction, that could be explained either by your being right, or by his being taken in by a charismatic personality due to being to immature for the rank he held.
As for Nog's reaction, that could be explained either by your being right, or by his being taken in by a charismatic personality due to being to immature for the rank he held.
I'm wondering:
In today's military, would Nog be obliged to take command?
And if he did not, would he be considered respnsible for Valiant's failure?
I suppose the writers or someone else involved must have spotted this problem, but realized the story wouldn't work like that. In that case, a little extra scene would have been nice where this is discussed and some 24th century regulations are brought up, and/or Nog declines taking command, respecting the former Valiant captain's decision (or something).
On the other hand, I remember the discussions on the new movie, how Kirk (and Saavik in TWOK) were already Lieutenants while still at the academy.
So maybe Watters and a few others maybe DID outrank Nog, even if we apply today's rules.
In today's military, would Nog be obliged to take command?
And if he did not, would he be considered respnsible for Valiant's failure?
I suppose the writers or someone else involved must have spotted this problem, but realized the story wouldn't work like that. In that case, a little extra scene would have been nice where this is discussed and some 24th century regulations are brought up, and/or Nog declines taking command, respecting the former Valiant captain's decision (or something).
On the other hand, I remember the discussions on the new movie, how Kirk (and Saavik in TWOK) were already Lieutenants while still at the academy.
So maybe Watters and a few others maybe DID outrank Nog, even if we apply today's rules.
The closest example I can think of:
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Arsenal_of_Freedom_(episode)
TNG, Episode 1x21
The Arsenal of Freedom (episode)
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Arsenal_of_Freedom_(episode)
TNG, Episode 1x21
Well, I can't say they deserved to die for their smug arrogance and superiority complexes, but I'll just say I was glad to see that those traits weren't rewarded with success.
Interesting question about Nog assuming command. It would depend on which carries more authority; an actual officer who has graduated the academy or the authority of the Captain who perished leaving Watters in command. Regardless, Nog should have found a way to send a message to Starfleet or Captain Sisko or someone with real authority to come drag those smug little twits home with a tractor beam. That would have been the responsible thing to do if he couldn't assume authority; and I doubt he could have without risk of being put in the brig himself. Those cadets were simply too full of themselves to see anything except their own "greatness." The best plan would be jet a message to Starfleet. Sure Nog will probably be caught and thrown in the brig, but by then the message is on its way.
Now just for the fun of it, imagine a Red Squad in Kirk's time. :P
Interesting question about Nog assuming command. It would depend on which carries more authority; an actual officer who has graduated the academy or the authority of the Captain who perished leaving Watters in command. Regardless, Nog should have found a way to send a message to Starfleet or Captain Sisko or someone with real authority to come drag those smug little twits home with a tractor beam. That would have been the responsible thing to do if he couldn't assume authority; and I doubt he could have without risk of being put in the brig himself. Those cadets were simply too full of themselves to see anything except their own "greatness." The best plan would be jet a message to Starfleet. Sure Nog will probably be caught and thrown in the brig, but by then the message is on its way.
Now just for the fun of it, imagine a Red Squad in Kirk's time. :P
Ahem 
Snaploud--Picard and Riker are still alive in your example.
Do we have any military/former military who can comment on this?
Do we have any military/former military who can comment on this?
I didn't "LOL" but the episode always makes my pulse faster. The arrogance of those cadets just drives me crazy. Who did they think they were? Smarter than officers? The real officers? I always wondered why Nog let them order him. After all, he was a graduate from the Academy and they were only cadets. I don't know how it is in IRL military, but seemed weird to me. Especially, since Nog showed some experience and the cadets were only following the protocol and doing everything by the book.
The scene with crying chief also angers me. Since when is it not allowed to miss home and parents? Isn't it what they fought for: their homes and safety of their families? You have to be a bitch like that first officer to be a good Starfleet officer?
Well, I find crying a much healthier way to release stress than drugging oneself regularly behind your crew's backs 
The scene with crying chief also angers me. Since when is it not allowed to miss home and parents? Isn't it what they fought for: their homes and safety of their families? You have to be a bitch like that first officer to be a good Starfleet officer?
Well, I find crying a much healthier way to release stress than drugging oneself regularly behind your crew's backs
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I think Bog would've had a LOT more experience. A LOT more. (Sorry, couldn't resist that one. 
)
Anyway, I'm not actually sure Nog graduated from the Academy. I think he might've gotten a field promotion because of the war.
)Anyway, I'm not actually sure Nog graduated from the Academy. I think he might've gotten a field promotion because of the war.
You meanie!I think Bog would've had a LOT more experience. A LOT more. (Sorry, couldn't resist that one.
Actually, you might be right.
Still, he had more experience (gained under supervision).
WATTERS: What's your solution, Commander?
NOG: I've taken the safeties off the plasma intercooler, the flux moderator and the pressure control system. That should solve the problem.
FARRIS: You do realise you're violating about fifty safety regulations?
NOG: Yes, sir, I do. But I also know that Chief O'Brien made the same changes to the Defiant. She never had a problem.
FARRIS: I don't know, Captain. This seems kind of risky to me.
He knew what could be done and how far he could push the engines, their knowledge was theoretical.
You're not doing it right. It should be...
There that's better.
I think this episode is proof of the writers thinking 'You know, people say wesley is annoying. Let's see if we can out do Wesley!'
*sigh*
There that's better.
I think this episode is proof of the writers thinking 'You know, people say wesley is annoying. Let's see if we can out do Wesley!'
*sigh*
^Thanks for the correction, Capt_Pickirk. It certainly looks better now 
The scene with crying chief also angers me. Since when is it not allowed to miss home and parents? Isn't it what they fought for: their homes and safety of their families? You have to be a bitch like that first officer to be a good Starfleet officer?
Up to that point, "Captain" Watters seemed alright. But after that, I wanted to punch him in the face repeatedly for his holier-than-thou-I'm-the-Captain-so-there attitude.
The look on Jake's face when the Cadets starting chanting "Red Squad!" fit my feelings perfectly. He saw just what a deluded, uber-patriotic, over-confident, self-obsessed mob they had become and he knew they were going to die. That's the way I interpreted the look, anyways.
You meanie!I think Bog would've had a LOT more experience. A LOT more. (Sorry, couldn't resist that one.
Sorry, I had to!
(For those of you wondering what we're going on about, check out what Bog, or related words, mean in Slavic languages.
)
Well, he did get better once he got his leg blowed off...
Wished it was his head (I hated Nog)
Always felt Valiant was Starship Troopers 90210 minus the bugs and humour...
