Did Anyone Else LOL When the Jem Shipped Killed Red Squad
- Thread starter Photon
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I guess your referring to the episode "Valiant"
I was waiting for
1) it to become a Nog Episode where he stands up before the attack, tells them they are idiots, points out that he is the highest ranking officer on board, and takes it home.
2) For them all to die.
I was cheering when the ship was getting its butt kicked.
I was waiting for
1) it to become a Nog Episode where he stands up before the attack, tells them they are idiots, points out that he is the highest ranking officer on board, and takes it home.
2) For them all to die.
I was cheering when the ship was getting its butt kicked.
Nog should have taken command. That episode annoyed me because of that fact. Instead Nog was an idiot along with rest of Red Squad.
Same here.
Indeed...that was BS that he didn't take command. He had the rank; he should've done it.
Maybe that incident proved that Nog was promoted way, way too soon, if he was so immature that he fell under a cadet's sway in that way and played a child's game behind enemy lines. I think in my fanfic universe, there will be consequences for that, albeit delayed.
I think it would have better if they had gone with the original idea for the episode - for it to be Jake and Kira instead of Jake and Nog. Jake would be the one taken in.
Then Kira could have single-handedly retaken control of the ship, kicked everyone's ass and piloted it back to DS9.
Then Kira could have single-handedly retaken control of the ship, kicked everyone's ass and piloted it back to DS9.
Well, originally it was intended for Jake to be the one taken in and for Kira to be the voice of reason. They changed it to Jake and Nog for a couple of reasons. First, they felt that it would work better for Nog to be taken in instead of Jake. Second, they honestly thought that the audience wouldn't accept Kira not single-handedly ending it all. 
LOL, Nog and Kira would of been better then what we got.Well, originally it was intended for Jake to be the one taken in and for Kira to be the voice of reason. They changed it to Jake and Nog for a couple of reasons. First, they felt that it would work better for Nog to be taken in instead of Jake. Second, they honestly thought that the audience wouldn't accept Kira not single-handedly ending it all.
I also liked the first idea a lot better then what we got.
I'm glad they went with making it Jake and Nog. Nog is exactly the sort of person who would be taken in by the crew of the Valiant -- he's sort of hero-worshipped Starfleet and Red Squad ever since he first applied for the Academy. Jake, on the other hand, has never really aspired to be in Starfleet and also enjoys a close relationship with his badass Starfleet captain father -- there's no way he's going to be fooled by some cadet-captain poseur like Tim Watters. Besides, by that point Nog had become a stiff rules-obsessed little prick and it was well-needed for something to knock him down a peg or two.
Nog and Kira wouldn't really work because they don't really have a close relationship like Jake and Nog, or even Kira and Jake.
Nog and Kira wouldn't really work because they don't really have a close relationship like Jake and Nog, or even Kira and Jake.
I know I wouldn't. If it was Kira then the episode would be over in fifteen minutes at most.Well, originally it was intended for Jake to be the one taken in and for Kira to be the voice of reason. They changed it to Jake and Nog for a couple of reasons. First, they felt that it would work better for Nog to be taken in instead of Jake. Second, they honestly thought that the audience wouldn't accept Kira not single-handedly ending it all.
^ Exactly, so on that account, they were smart not to go with Kira. 
No, of course I didn't.
I do think that this story continues the arc for Nog where he always wanted to be part of the 'cool' team (e.g. as he described Red Squad in 'Homefront'). I think he got blinded by being 'Chief Engineer' and being part of Red Squad that he forgot common sense. I think this episode actually makes him a better officer in the end and is the intermediary between a stupid cadet and a logical officer.
I do like the scene where they think they've done serious damage to the warship and are cheering, only to have the warship come out of the explosion REALLY pissed off. Love it.
I do like the scene where they think they've done serious damage to the warship and are cheering, only to have the warship come out of the explosion REALLY pissed off. Love it.
Exactly. This episode gives some more insight into Nog's personality. If he had taken command, it would have been rather pointless.
I didn't laugh when they all got killed. They died due to stupidity and overconfidence. This wasn't Wile E. Coyote using a missile launcher and being slammed back against a mountain.
It made the most sense being Jake and Nog. It had already been established that Nog really wanted in on Red Squad back in "Homefront/Paradise Lost." So the opportunity to fulfill that dream would automatically appeal to him. He may have been given the field promotion, but that was within the past year, so recent enough to still feel Cadet like, and that those upper class men were his superiors.
Jake being a Civilian gives him no authority to be able to stop things and for Nog to think that Jake just doesn't get it. Despite not being in Starfleet, Kira had Military rank and a huge amount of experience. Making her powerless aboard that ship would have been more difficult, also based on "Defiant" She likely would have found a way to disable the ship. While Jake could only fight with his words.
It made the most sense being Jake and Nog. It had already been established that Nog really wanted in on Red Squad back in "Homefront/Paradise Lost." So the opportunity to fulfill that dream would automatically appeal to him. He may have been given the field promotion, but that was within the past year, so recent enough to still feel Cadet like, and that those upper class men were his superiors.
Jake being a Civilian gives him no authority to be able to stop things and for Nog to think that Jake just doesn't get it. Despite not being in Starfleet, Kira had Military rank and a huge amount of experience. Making her powerless aboard that ship would have been more difficult, also based on "Defiant" She likely would have found a way to disable the ship. While Jake could only fight with his words.
I liked the episode always knew that they all be killed they were young and foolish !! Just shows you they were not ready for senior duty aboard a starship.?
Yeah, that's why it's funny. They should have known better. They're sent to examine the biggest ship this galaxy has ever seen, and they think that they as a bunch of CADETs can blow it up? In one shot, no less? These people are so green it's amazing they don't sway in the wind with the grass! Wasn't their mission "gather intel about the new ship and report back to HQ"? It looks to me they didn't do that.
Back to the issue about CADETS doing this: these are Jem'Hadar they're fighting. They are like human adults with the except of the two-week-old and younger ones. Any single Jem'Hadar can outfight ten cadets. And seeing as how this ship was gigantic, it could have defeated the Defiant with all phaser/torpedoes on minimum, one volley. (Which it did, didn't it?)
I actually wish Kira had been there. If the cadets didn't cow to her as a REAL military officer, she could have administratively kicked their butts (if and when they got back to civilization) all the way back to preschool for insubordination during a wartime situation, blah blah blah.
But enough about their military stupidity, it was the fascist way they ran the whole operation. They put Jake in the brig for simply talking about home? I was more afraid of their fascism and treatment of the lone outsider than the Jem'Hadar who blew them to kingdom come.
THAT part was almost like the Stanford Prison Experiment, the way the dynamics on that crew wound up. Very creepy. Good thing Watters got blown up because there's no telling what kind of little fascist or Section 31 operative he could've become.
