Revisiting Star Trek TOS/TAS...

[RAMA]

"A Taste Of Armageddon" *****

The Enterprise is caught in the middle of an interplanetary war.

Awesome! A classic science fiction story told with style. And based on a quite surreal idea: war fought mathematically on computers and the casualties must report in to be put to death. It doesn't matter that the war computers look archaic because it's still a dynamite story. And a nice touch of irony too---Anan 7's sarcasm regarding the idea of Kirk destroying Eminiar with just a disrupter...and Kirk does pretty much that only with a hand phaser. And I love the banter between Kirk and Anan 7.

If you're seeing this for the first time it's a helluva treat. If you've seen it before then you can't help but smile at Anan 7's pompous attitude and statements and not having a clue who he's dealing with. I love it that Kirk was perfectly willing to leave these folks to themselves and their crazy ideas, but once they force him into the middle of it then all bets are off.

Kirk: "We don't fight wars by computer and heard casualties off to suicide stations. We make the real thing."

Awesome!

One of Trek's best concept episodes. Sometimes, the bleeding obvious just stares at you in the face, then certain issues seem much clearer...like this cold war/push button war parable. It's my 5th favorite episode despite...

....the down side...another straw culture...this time the Prime Directive ignored to the point that could lead to all out war if the reality were to come true. In fact Peter David wrote a comic where Eminiar did just that after peace talks broke down, and Kirk was brought to trial for the planet's annihilation.

RAMA

 

[Warped9]

^^ With this one it's debatable. Eminiar 7 was aware of life on other worlds and they had no justification for involving the Enterprise in their "war" with Vendikar. They could just have simply held fast and said no to any diplomatic overtures. But they chose to drag the Federation into their conflict by claiming the Enterprise a legitimate target. This wasn't a case of trying to protect the development of a culture isolated from any knowledge of life beyond their own world. Eminiar 7 is an advanced culture and well aware they aren't alone in the universe. They were effectively declaring war on the Federation by attacking the Enterprise.

And fact is there was nothing really stopping them from starting up their "war" again after the Enterprise leaves.

The Prime Directive seems to have different layers of meaning depending on the situation.
- no revealing of self and knowledge of other worlds to primitive or less advanced cultures.
- no interference in the normal development of less advanced cultures.
- no interference in the internal workings of a culture or Federation member world.

Kirk was perfectly willing to leave the Eminians alone...until they dragged the Enterprise (and by extent the Federation) into their conflict.

 

[RAMA]

^^ With this one it's debatable. Eminiar 7 was aware of life on other worlds and they had no justification for involving the Enterprise in their "war" with Vendikar. They could just have simply held fast and said no to any diplomatic overtures. But they chose to drag the Federation into their conflict by claiming the Enterprise a legitimate target. This wasn't a case of trying to protect the development of a culture isolated from any knowledge of life beyond their own world. Eminiar 7 is an advanced culture and well aware they aren't alone in the universe. They were effectively declaring war on the Federation by attacking the Enterprise.

And fact is there was nothing really stopping them from starting up their "war" again after the Enterprise leaves.

The Prime Directive seems to have different layers of meaning depending on the situation.
- no revealing of self and knowledge of other worlds to primitive or less advanced cultures.
- no interference in the normal development of less advanced cultures.
- no interference in the internal workings of a culture or Federation member world.

Kirk was perfectly willing to leave the Eminians alone...until they dragged the Enterprise (and by extent the Federation) into their conflict.

The Prime Directive still applies in the sense that you can't go to an advanced planet and attain orbit, then start dictating how it should govern itself and conduct business. It's kind of odd that the ambassador had an almost aggressive mandate to negotiate Eminiar's entry into the Federation! Otherwise they'd never even have been so stubborn about staying in orbit. I recall they were warned away at one point.

 

[Noname Given]

^^ With this one it's debatable. Eminiar 7 was aware of life on other worlds and they had no justification for involving the Enterprise in their "war" with Vendikar. They could just have simply held fast and said no to any diplomatic overtures. But they chose to drag the Federation into their conflict by claiming the Enterprise a legitimate target. This wasn't a case of trying to protect the development of a culture isolated from any knowledge of life beyond their own world. Eminiar 7 is an advanced culture and well aware they aren't alone in the universe. They were effectively declaring war on the Federation by attacking the Enterprise.

And fact is there was nothing really stopping them from starting up their "war" again after the Enterprise leaves.

The Prime Directive seems to have different layers of meaning depending on the situation.
- no revealing of self and knowledge of other worlds to primitive or less advanced cultures.
- no interference in the normal development of less advanced cultures.
- no interference in the internal workings of a culture or Federation member world.

Kirk was perfectly willing to leave the Eminians alone...until they dragged the Enterprise (and by extent the Federation) into their conflict.

Actually - if I recall the start of the episode, the Enterprise was hailing them; and their response was a "Code 7" - which translated to:

"DO NOT APPROACH THIS PLANET UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES"

And Ambassador Fox basically ordered Kirk to disregard that response; and Kirk also went in on Red Alert with the ship's Phaser armed; so I don't see how the Eminians can be held responsable as they said in clear terms: "STAY AWAY!"

 

[Warped9]

So if anyone is responsible it's Ambassador Fox.

Given the way things unfolded I don't see Starfleet and/or the Federation Council giving Kirk a hard time. Like Kirk told Anan 7, they weren't responsible for Eminian agreements. And later Kirk said, "We don't wage war on computers. We make the real thing." In that statement he's saying that their attack on the Enterprise and Federation personnel could be taken as an act of war and if the Federation chose to respond it wouldn't be mathematical on a computer.

And not once (if I recall correctly) does Spock raise an objection or the issue of the Prime Directive, something he's known to do when he believes it's relevant.

What we don't see here (in the show, not this board) is the discussion or perhaps hot debate in regard to what exactly the Prime Directive really means. As I said earlier it seems to have different layers of meaning or to be elastic enough depending on the situation. And this will continue from TOS into TNG. There may be exceptions to it such as not having to sacrifice yourself and your ship if you can find a way out of it without violating the directive at least in spirit.

 

[BillJ]

...until they dragged the Enterprise (and by extent the Federation) into their conflict.

Isn't it the other way around?

The Enterprise was sending hails and the Eminians shot back the 'Code 710' telling them to stay away. Fox was dragging the Enterprise and the Federation into the conflict.

 

[Warped9]

^^ It could be seen that way and in that case then it's Fox who puts them into the mess and Kirk who extricates them from it.

Note that it's unclear why "thousands of lives" had been lost in that sector. It's never really stated or claimed that Eminiar and Vendikar were responsible for that. All we know is that the Valiant didn't return fifty years earlier. But if Eminiar and Vandikar are responsible for numerous ships and lives lost over the years then they had already committed acts of aggression against the Federation and Kirk is again off the hook for protecting his ship and crew.

And note that Fox doesn't seem to have any objections for how Kirk handled things when it all went to hell.

 

[TigerOfDarkness]

It is implied that the Valiant (or its crew) were killed in the conflict - during the first attack, after one of the hits, an Eminian and Anan 7 exchange dialog:

Eminian: Look Anan
Anan 7: Yes, I see it - they were warned
Eminian: Just as it happened 50 years ago

following that Anan informs Kirk the Enterprise crew are casualties.

 

[Warped9]

I understood the Valiant was a casualty just as they intended for the Enterprise. But I'm wondering about the other thousands of lives lost in that sector according to Robert Fox.

 

[Noname Given]

I understood the Valiant was a casualty just as they intended for the Enterprise. But I'm wondering about the other thousands of lives lost in that sector according to Robert Fox.

While its true that te U.S.S. Valiant was the only StarFleet ship to attempt contact with the Eminiar 7 inhabitants; there could be reports from other aliens species, star states/empires, etc. that StarFleet Command and Robert Fox was aware of. The Federation isn't the only 'star nation' around.

 

[TigerOfDarkness]

I understood the Valiant was a casualty just as they intended for the Enterprise. But I'm wondering about the other thousands of lives lost in that sector according to Robert Fox.

While its true that te U.S.S. Valiant was the only StarFleet ship to attempt contact with the Eminiar 7 inhabitants; there could be reports from other aliens species, star states/empires, etc. that StarFleet Command and Robert Fox was aware of. The Federation isn't the only 'star nation' around.

I wondered whether Fox meant the Eminians and Vendikarns killed in the war, but their casualties are stated to be 1-3 million per year.

 

[Warped9]

^^ That figure could have been at the present time. I'm assuming that their methods had evolved over time. They may well have started their war 500 years earlier in a more conventional way and their computerized warfare evolved into effect over time.

The "thousands of lives lost" stated by Robert Fox I'm assuming to mean Federation and allied aliens lives lost in that sector over the past several decades. Were the Eminians and Vendikans responsible for those deaths as well or were there other causes suspected?

 

[Warped9]

"The Devil In The Dark" ****

The Enterprise crew hunts a deadly creature that is killing miners.

"To seek out new life..." Another cool science fiction story with an enlightened perspective particularly for the time it was produced. Long before the 1979 film Alien TOS gives us the Horta, a genuine nonhumanoid life form, and turns the killing alien monster story on its head. Much like "The Man Trap" and more particularly "Arena" Star Trek dishes out some more moral ambiguity and challenges our immediate assumptions in regards to alien motives and perspectives. Today's audiences may dismiss the f/x with the notion it could look more slick and kewl if produced today, but I seriously doubt anything could be really added to the story itself.

The episode does feel a bit run-of-the-mill until Kirk and Spock come face-to-face(?) with the Horta. Then it gets interesting. I love McCoy's expression when first faced with trying to treat the injured Horta. And Spock's conveyance of the Horta's distress is moving. It's also a nice touch that the miners seem to immediately feel contrite once they understand what's going on.

This episode would have benefitted from less lighting as it would have kept the story's sets and the Horta more in the shadows and less visible. On older television sets this wasn't really a problem, but with contemporary display resolution the production limits are more apparent.

Some questions do arise. At the deep levels where this story is set where is all the light coming from, particularly in the Horta's tunnels and lair? And considering the Horta's physiology could Spock and McCoy actually have been able to touch it without any sort of protective attire?

 

[RAMA]

"The Devil In The Dark" ****

The Enterprise crew hunts a deadly creature that is killing miners.

"To seek out new life..." Another cool science fiction story with an enlightened perspective particularly for the time it was produced. Long before the 1979 film Alien TOS gives us the Horta, a genuine nonhumanoid life form, and turns the killing alien monster story on its head. Much like "The Man Trap" and more particularly "Arena" Star Trek dishes out some more moral ambiguity and challenges our immediate assumptions in regards to alien motives and perspectives. Today's audiences may dismiss the f/x with the notion it could look more slick and kewl if produced today, but I seriously doubt anything could be really added to the story itself.

The episode does feel a bit run-of-the-mill until Kirk and Spock come face-to-face(?) with the Horta. Then it gets interesting. I love McCoy's expression when first faced with trying to treat the injured Horta. And Spock's conveyance of the Horta's distress is moving. It's also a nice touch that the miners seem to immediately feel contrite once they understand what's going on.

This episode would have benefitted from less lighting as it would have kept the story's sets and the Horta more in the shadows and less visible. On older television sets this wasn't really a problem, but with contemporary display resolution the production limits are more apparent.

Some questions do arise. At the deep levels where this story is set where is all the light coming from, particularly in the Horta's tunnels and lair? And considering the Horta's physiology could Spock and McCoy actually have been able to touch it without any sort of protective attire?

Love the story because when people who don't watch ST much watch it, they think its going to be a "B' monster story...and that's prob what people thought in the 60s too!! Any story that makes you think about your preconceptions (hint, hint) and leads to ponder them is great in my book. You can apply the themes here to racism, gender, foreigners, what have you.

I don't mind the FX, the monster suit is ok, it looks fine when it doesn't move. Would it be better in CGI? Sure, but I don't really have a prob with it.

ST tackles the themes here several times in later years in TAS, STNG (Lonely Among Us, Home Soil, etc). Devil in the Dark is the best one, though STNG's "Home Soil" ratchets it up a notch, with a worldwide, naturally evolving, inorganic computer life form.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

...until they dragged the Enterprise (and by extent the Federation) into their conflict.

Isn't it the other way around?

The Enterprise was sending hails and the Eminians shot back the 'Code 710' telling them to stay away. Fox was dragging the Enterprise and the Federation into the conflict.

I re-watched this episode for the first time since the TOS-R aired...its amazing after all these yrs how points of view can change...but I'm shocked at Fox's actions here!! Kirk actually gets out of the blame for this...he resists Fox's efforts totally. In no uncertain terms he tells Kirk they need a base, and they are going to make a treaty and darn well get it! This just amazes me that I never saw how martial Fox's actions are...so imperialistic. I felt so sorry for Kirk. Wow i have to rank this as one of the biggest Federation blunders.

Another observation: Watched Errand of Mercy...Spock really disassociates himself from humans when he says its remarkable how humans manage to get what they don't want while referring to the declaration of war! Well he's part of the UFP!! He's just as much part of the decision.

RAMA

 

[Captain Robert April]

In the case of Eminiar and Vendikar, sorry, but when your little feud starts affecting interstellar commerce and lives are being lost that have nothing to do with your little SimWar, play time's over, the game stops NOW, whether you like it or not.

It wouldn't be surprising, had the Enterprise failed in her mission, for Starfleet to send an armada in and bitch slapped both planets into submission. They'd clearly already reached the point of "enough is enough."

 

[RAMA]

In the case of Eminiar and Vendikar, sorry, but when your little feud starts affecting interstellar commerce and lives are being lost that have nothing to do with your little SimWar, play time's over, the game stops NOW, whether you like it or not.

It wouldn't be surprising, had the Enterprise failed in her mission, for Starfleet to send an armada in and bitch slapped both planets into submission. They'd clearly already reached the point of "enough is enough."

What? Apparently you didn't read what I wrote...the episode has nothing to do about commerce (and that statement is debatable in itself also...that commerce is more important than non-interference) the deaths Fox mentioned apparently are all on-planet with the exception of one starship 50 yrs before...the central issue is that the UFP wants a SPACEPORT!! That's why they want the treaty...non-interference be damned. This is an independent world, you're talking as if the UFP has a right to take it over. That's just crazy, its not how the UFP is supposed to operate. The UFP as represented by FOX is one slight level abovethe Klingons in Errand of Mercy in this episode.

Let me make it clear...the message of the episode is fine...but the means it uses to get to this point seems incredibly flawed, both in universe and out.

RAMA

 

[BillJ]

What? Apparently you didn't read what I wrote...the episode has nothing to do about commerce (and that statement is debatable in itself also...that commerce is more important than non-interference) the deaths Fox mentioned apparently are all on-planet with the exception of one starship 50 yrs before...the central issue is that the UFP wants a SPACEPORT!! That's why they want the treaty...non-interference be damned. This is an independent world, you're talking as if the UFP has a right to take it over. That's just crazy, its not how the UFP is supposed to operate. The UFP as represented by FOX is one slight level abovethe Klingons in Errand of Mercy in this episode.

RAMA

You seem to misremember the episode...

FOX: Captain, in the past twenty years, thousands of lives have been lost in this quadrant. Lives that could have been saved if the Federation had a treaty port here. We mean to have that port and I'm here to get it.

Nothing about any of those lives being lost planet side.

If you are seeing increased traffic in the area... you can't allow these guys to act like fuckwads, executing innocent people who happen to wander into the wrong area of space.

Fox had the right intentions.

 

[Expo67]

Even though started out as a fussy and infuriating bureaucrat type(much like Commissioner Ferris in The Galileo Seven), it was great to see Robert Fox break out of that mold, pick up a phaser(or disruptor)and help Kirk, Spock, and the landing party put an end to the conflict between Eminiar VII and Vendikar.

"[FONT=Arial]I've never been a soldier, Mr. Spock, but I learn very quickly."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][/FONT]
It's amazing what the fear of God can do to a person. Let alone how it can change a person's perspectives very fast.

 

[BillJ]

They have every right to expect Vendikar and Eminiar VII are in a war between each other


RAMA

So a damaged civilian liner with thousands of passengers accidentally wanders into their system, the Eminians have the right to execute them?

In each instance the leaders of the two worlds could've gotten on the Batphone with one another and explained that the crafts that were deemed "casualties" were not part of the war. But neither did.

There are times when progress of a larger community is going to force a smaller community to change their ways.

Once you have a government executing outsiders for doing nothing more than being in the "wrong place at the wrong time", it's time to end their game of Missile Command and tell them to grow up.