Game of Thrones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on HBO

[Venardhi]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

Sorry Checkmate, this was clearly rape. Not only did he not even imply asking for her permission, he stalked around her like a wolf sniffing at a dead deer and then stripped her and fucked her while she wept.

His lack of communication was palpable, and what little there was felt cold and uncaring.

We see him smile with pleasure at a man being killed, but not even a hint of such towards this girl he took as his wife. Not as concubine or slave, but as his queen.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

Label his act all you want, but based on the portrayal of the character and his culture in the episode, he was doing exactly what he thought to be his right -- taking his wife on their wedding night. The idea of consent was irrelevant to him -- in fact it seemed somewhat amusing, almost childish to him. The whole scene seemed very matter-of-fact to me. If she's somehow able to affect a change in his character (his "moral compass" or however you want to call it), then it actually shows strength of character: the ability to see beyond one's own social paradigm and learn the error of his previous ways. Whether or not this comes across as genuine will depend on his arc going forward (and as someone who as not read the books, I've no idea to what extent his character actually does change).

After all, one could say Han Solo "murdered" someone in cold blood. That didn't make his character any less likeable or unpalatable in the end.

 

[Kegg]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

Label his act all you want, but based on the portrayal of the character and his culture in the episode, he was doing exactly what he thought to be his right -- taking his wife on their wedding night. The idea of consent was irrelevant to him -- in fact it seemed somewhat amusing, almost childish to him.

Which is pretty much the case in the book as well. The only major difference from the book has Daenerys is shown as enjoying it.

Oh, that and in the book Daenerys is like, thirteen.

I'm sorry I must have missed the sense that scene wasn't somewhat disturbing in the novel.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

Dany coming around to saying "yes" to Drogo didn't work particularly well in the book in my opinion and it wouldn't have worked at all if they'd tried it on screen.

 

[Tulin]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

Not only that, but rough !=(sic) rape.

People through(sic) that word around too damn(sic) often.

I have to admit..........I have NO idea what you are saying here.

 

[Mach5]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

Is it just me, or is premiering a show tag-lined "Winter is coming" in the middle of spring kinda stupid?

 

[Bishop76]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

I live in Wisconsin, so that's pretty much our motto year round. Hell, just 2 days ago I was driving through a thunder-blizzard.

 

[Reliant Robin]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

Which is pretty much the case in the book as well. The only major difference from the book has Daenerys is shown as enjoying it.

The major difference in the book is that Daenerys consented. That is actually quite a major difference.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

^ If she is indeed 13 (EDIT: wiki says fourteen) in the book, most (if not all) Western law says she cannot legally consent. Therefore, legally-speaking, she gave no consent in the book, either.

Either way, it's a moot point because the act in question is portrayed as "normal" for the guy. He doesn't think he's doing something obscene or illegal. In both cases (book and show) his character either needs to be condemned or redeemed by what transpires in the story itself.

 

[Kegg]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

The major difference in the book is that Daenerys consented. That is actually quite a major difference.

Beginning to like it isn't quite the same thing as consenting. He's her husband, it's their wedding night, she's aware of what is expected and required of her.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

If she is indeed 13 (EDIT: wiki says fourteen) in the book, most (if not all) Western law says she cannot legally consent. Therefore, legally-speaking, she gave no consent in the book, either.

That's modern western law (although the age of consent is as low as 14 in some European countries). Marriage, including arranged marriage, at 13 or 14, or even younger, was quite common in times past, especially amongst royals.

As to the scene in question in the book, a young girl who feels she has to please her new husband in a political arranged marriage, and who feels both a sense of duty and fear towards her brother and his expectations in that regard, is hardly in a position to give a full, healthy measure of consent. And Drogo being gentle enough to coax a "yes" out of her smacked of authorial sleight of hand that didn't square with Dothraki culture.

 

[ProwlAlpha]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

or how about the basic fact that this isn't the same culture as ours. If you going to go on and on about the rape, why don't you go on and on about the incest and slavery that was shown as well.

 

[Kegg]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

If you going to go on and on about the rape, why don't you go on and on about the incest and slavery that was shown as well.

Well, nobody's accusing the TV series of handling the incest inaccurately. Viserys does seem to be more creepily gentle in the pilot episode then the petulant man child of the novel, though.

I must have missed the slavery, personally, unless you mean in the sense of Daenerys being treated like barter. We'll get to slavery soon enough, I'm sure.

 

[JD]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

Spoiler: MAJOR SPOILERS: IF YOU DO NOT KNOW THE BOOKS DO NOT READ

I know in the book Ned, Drogo, Viserys, and Robert all end up dead. So I was just curious if they continue to cover the same amount of the book in future episodes, how long can we expect to see those characters?

 

[Shurik]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

Spoiler: MAJOR SPOILERS: IF YOU DO NOT KNOW THE BOOKS DO NOT READ

I know in the book Ned, Drogo, Viserys, and Robert all end up dead. So I was just curious if they continue to cover the same amount of the book in future episodes, how long can we expect to see those characters?

Spoiler: SPOILERS!!!!

The 6th episode is called "The Golden Crown"

 

[Owain Taggart]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

Is it just me, or is premiering a show tag-lined "Winter is coming" in the middle of spring kinda stupid?

It literally happened here. 14cm of snow, and the next city over got 21cm, both records for this time of year for our area. Yeah, I want my Spring back!

 

[Mach5]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

I live in Wisconsin, so that's pretty much our motto year round. Hell, just 2 days ago I was driving through a thunder-blizzard.

My late grandparents were from the mountainside where they have a saying: "We only have two seasons around here - winter, and preparing for winter"

 

[Reliant Robin]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

The major difference in the book is that Daenerys consented. That is actually quite a major difference.

Beginning to like it isn't quite the same thing as consenting. He's her husband, it's their wedding night, she's aware of what is expected and required of her.

She says "Yes." That is consenting. As for what's expected and required of her as a wife, she didn't consent to be married in the first place, this is the first time we see her consent to anything that's happened to her. The scene isn't exactly all roses in the book, given the circumstances, but at least it shows a beginning of Drogo being capable of respecting her and of Dany having some agency and making some choices of her own. It's important for her character IMHO because that's the first time we see that.

ProwlAlpha, my issue is not that bad things happen or are being shown, my question is whether the TV show deviating from the book in this matter does the characters justice or will help their story arc in the long term.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

I haven't been this eager for the next episode of a show to roll around since BSG and Lost ended.

 

[Aeolusdallas]

Re: Game of Thones: 1x01 - "Winter is Coming" - Premieres April 17 on

^ If she is indeed 13 (EDIT: wiki says fourteen) in the book, most (if not all) Western law says she cannot legally consent. Therefore, legally-speaking, she gave no consent in the book, either.

Either way, it's a moot point because the act in question is portrayed as "normal" for the guy. He doesn't think he's doing something obscene or illegal. In both cases (book and show) his character either needs to be condemned or redeemed by what transpires in the story itself.

There have been places in the US in living memory where you could get married and have sex with your spouse at 13