Nintendo's Problem

[HotRod]

Well 1st of all,let me say that I am not a Pokemon fan, I honestly don't get it, but thats me. I'm sure others are and thats fine. That being said....No, I cannot view Pokemon as a mature game. It, like most thinks by Nintendo these days, is full of cute lil creatures. Same can be said for Pikmin. Plus, every other game you listed, with the exception of Eternal Darkness, is rated E or T. And Eternal Darkness don't really play into what I'm talking about as it was not made by Nintendo or even made for the Wii. When I say I want Mature, I mean I want a game with a little bit of an edge. It's not that I want ultra violence or graphic nudity. I just want Nintendo to put some effort towards and really push the Wii to it's limits and actually create some new, and exciting IP that for once does not involve some cartoony creatures. Don't even have to be rated M, look at Arkham Asylum or Uncharted. Both T rated, both great games that tell an in depth story without feeling like they are catering to 10 year olds.

I'm not saying Nintendo should not make the kinda games they are making now. I'm just wishing they would expand a little and atleast try something new.

 

[HotRod]

double post

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Well 1st of all,let me say that I am not a Pokemon fan, I honestly don't get it, but thats me. I'm sure others are and thats fine. That being said....No, I cannot view Pokemon as a mature game. It, like most thinks by Nintendo these days, is full of cute lil creatures. Same can be said for Pikmin. Plus, every other game you listed, with the exception of Eternal Darkness, is rated E or T. And Eternal Darkness don't really play into what I'm talking about as it was not made by Nintendo or even made for the Wii. When I say I want Mature, I mean I want a game with a little bit of an edge. It's not that I want ultra violence or graphic nudity. I just want Nintendo to put some effort towards and really push the Wii to it's limits and actually create some new, and exciting IP that for once does not involve some cartoony creatures. Don't even have to be rated M, look at Arkham Asylum or Uncharted. Both T rated, both great games that tell an in depth story without feeling like they are catering to 10 year olds.

I'm not saying Nintendo should not make the kinda games they are making now. I'm just wishing they would expand a little and atleast try something new.

So, you do just want something that has violence/nudity/swearing, you just don't want to admit that's what you want and are instead criticizing the "cute" graphics.

I'll grant you that graphics on Nintendo titles tend to be of the cute variety, but that has nothing to do with the gameplay.

Now, I don't have a Wii, but I do have a DS. There are some very deep games for that platform:

* Final Fantasy Tactics A2 -- Cute graphics, absurd level of gameplay possibilities.
* Rune Factory (series) -- Yeah, cute graphics again, but also varied and unique gameplay.
* Front Mission -- Admittedly a port, but an excellent one, and I'd challenge anybody on saying it isn't a deeply strategic game. It does have a pretty adult storyline (dealing with themes of war, revenge, and death) without being the least bit bloody.
* Might & Magic: Clash of Heroes -- More cute graphics! Also a pretty unique puzzle-strategy game.
* Advance Wars: Days of Ruin -- The graphics are manga-style but not what I'd call "cute." Also has a storyline that is, at times, more than a little disturbing.

Just because the games aren't "in your face" about how "edgy" they are, doesn't mean there's no depth or "maturity" to them.

Someone more familiar with the Wii library can speak to what games there are more "adult," but in this instance it seems like the words "adult" and "mature" are supposed to imply graphic violence, profane language, and nudity. I like those things as much as the next guy, but to be blunt, adding them to a game is not "mature." It's juvenile. The best games can accomplish their goals without being gratuitously "edgy."

Hell, my favorite game right now is Minecraft, all the violence of which is hilariously abstract and which has no language or nudity whatsoever.

 

[HotRod]

I used Uncharted as an example. To me it is a perfect example of an adult game without going to extreme levels of violence, swearing, or nudity. This is what I'm talking about. Something that has an interesting story, amazing gameplay, and pushes it's system to its limits. To me, it is a game that does not pander to the younger generation. Sure, 10 years olds can play it and enjoy it. But it is still obviously a game aimed at an older audience. The Wii has no game that I know of that could fit this criteria. They just keep pumping out the same old stuff, which I agree does work for them, makes them seem a little stale. I'm not asking for Gears of War level violence or Duke Nukem level nudity or GTA level swearing. I'm just asking for a title, clearly aimed at the over 15 crowd.

 

[Canadave]

^ Goldeneye, then.

 

[HotRod]

Wasn't made by Nintendo. Plus kinda sucked. Though thats just my opinion.

 

[clint g]

Metroid Prime.

 

[darthraidr]

i dont get it... if you want those kind of games, Nintendo is not for you... it's not new, it's been Nintendo's thing for a couple of generations.

it's a cool pipe dream, "What if Nintendo made some more mature titles..." but you can file it away with "What if Nintendo had decent 3rd party support..." and "It sure would be nice if Nintendo had a decent online plan/structure..."

maybe one day it'll happen. until then, i happily play other games on other systems.

 

[Kelthaz]

Okay, dropping the defensive Nintendo fan thing for a minute, let me offer some actual suggestions.

It seems to me, based on the games that you've used as examples, that you enjoy Western games over Japanese games. You dislike the aesthetics and design choices of Eastern companies and want something more, well, American. The Wii and DS, and to a lesser degree the PS3, are not for you. You should look into games on the PC and 360 which cater pretty much exclusively towards your interests. But if you are looking for something with significant Western influence for the Wii I can offer you a few suggestions.

Resident Evil 4 (the definite version of the game)
Mad World
Metroid Prime 3
No More Heroes
House of the Dead 2 & 3
House of the Dead: Overkill
Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles
Monster Hunter Tri

 

[Kemaiku]

Just maybe more mature. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed alot of what Nintendo has come out with, I'd just like to see them try something new. But they always do seem to play it safe. Just imagine if Nintendo put their full effort, like they do with Mario and Zelda, into some new IP that was as deep as Mass Effect.

You keep using that word (mature). I do not think it means what you think it means.

Mature Nintendo titles and franchises

Pokemon (seriously)

Particularly the new games, Black and White. I knew nothing of the storyline beforehand but played Generations I-IV, but the new "villians" really have a whole new dynamic basing their actions off of a moral qualm with the Pokemon world, making the player question the ethics of the entire premis of the game. An interesting change of pace and a nice twist.

 

[Sheep]

But would it kill them to even attempt a more mature title? I'm not expecting them to try and compete with Gears of War or Manhunt. But i would just hope to see a bit of an effort. What's the worse that could happen?

The same thing that tends to happen when a company takes a chance and releases a well-made game that's not a first- or third-person shooter on the Xbox 360: Unless there's a massive ad budget or extremely positive word of mouth behind it, it simply won't sell well because a not insignificant number of people bought the 360 for some FPS game and that's mostly what they play. Wii owners surely didn't buy their system to play Gears or Call of Duty, games which are out of their comfort zone.

Each system has this problem to some degree: 360 owners only play "hardcore" FPS games, Wii owners only like casual, family-oriented stuff, and PS3 owners only want a blu-ray player as evidenced by the relative low number of PS3 games that appear on sales charts. Microsoft and Sony are both actively working to get past these stereotypes but Nintendo seems perfectly content where it is.

 

[Jax]

I was just on Escapist website reading a story that Nintendo are set to announce a BRAND NEW HD CONSOLE at E3 in June that is not a Wii upgrade.

Talk about the lack of support the Wii has been given despite selling so well as a console. Games lineup is weak and the upgrades like Motion Plus have been under used.

2012 release date is the rumor but with the 3DS just out, is there a market for a new Nintendo console?

 

[Owain Taggart]

I was just on Escapist website reading a story that Nintendo are set to announce a BRAND NEW HD CONSOLE at E3 in June that is not a Wii upgrade.

Talk about the lack of support the Wii has been given despite selling so well as a console. Games lineup is weak and the upgrades like Motion Plus have been under used.

2012 release date is the rumor but with the 3DS just out, is there a market for a new Nintedno console?

Probably. I mean, I see handhelds as a different market alltogether, much like the Gameboy was very much different compared to the NES or SNES, so I do believe there's still room for a new console aside from the 3DS.

As for the console itself, I rather doubt it would lack Wii support. It might not be a Wii 2, but it also might be a more well-rounded system that doesn't just rely on motion control but has it available for games to take advantage of. It might be more like Kinect or Move in terms of approach as a full-featured console able to play regular games as well and motion-control not being its primary control method.

If you think about it, Nintendo is in a position to come right around the corner with something next-gen. They haven't released any HD console, and while some could look at that as a disadvantage, I look at it more as an advantage to create a stunning next-gen console that not only takes advantage of HD, but surpasses the others in terms of graphics and features, leaving the others to catch up.

Another theory I have is that while it might not strictly be another Wii console, that Nintendo will package a more precise version of the Wiimote with it, perhaps with built-in motion+, allowing backwards compatibility. Otherwise, it would seem like an awfully long wait (waiting another generation) for another Wii console considering it sold so well, so I'm thinking it might be more prudent for them to go that route rather than risk having their Wii market erode away.

 

[Kelthaz]

They haven't released any HD console, and while some could look at that as a disadvantage, I look at it more as an advantage to create a stunning next-gen console that not only takes advantage of HD, but surpasses the others in terms of graphics and features, leaving the others to catch up.

Nintendo wouldn't do that. They aren't going to develop a console with top of the line hardware with a price tag to match. I think Sony proved that's not the way to win customers.

 

[Owain Taggart]

They haven't released any HD console, and while some could look at that as a disadvantage, I look at it more as an advantage to create a stunning next-gen console that not only takes advantage of HD, but surpasses the others in terms of graphics and features, leaving the others to catch up.

Nintendo wouldn't do that. They aren't going to develop a console with top of the line hardware with a price tag to match. I think Sony proved that's not the way to win customers.

They wouldn't necessarily have to either. By the time Nintendo releases their next console, it would be considered next-gen anyway and it would already be more advanced technologically than the other ones. They only have to be current with the technological trends, much like they were with the SNES following the NES, etc. Otherwise, if they don't stay with the trends, then they wouldn't have a console to compete with.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Interesting news about Nintendo's next console via GameInformer. Seems to echo a lot of what I was saying. Of course, they're rumours, but several other articles seem to get even more info.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/04/14/new-nintendo-console-at-e3.aspx

http://www.next-gen.biz/news/sources-confirm-more-details-on-wii-successor

We have confirmed with multiple sources that this new home system is capable of running games at HD resolutions. There are conflicting reports, however, as to whether its graphics will be comparable to those on the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 – meaning it could surpass or fall short of those systems. Either way it will offer competitive specifications. Moving to HD should greatly help Nintendo and its new console in getting more multi-platform triple-A titles like Portal 2 or Mortal Kombat. This, in turn, will strengthen Nintendo's historically poor relationship with third-party publishers/developers.

They have also claimed that the system retains motion control, with capabilities that are “better than Move”, meaning that they boast higher fidelity. We do not yet have word on whether or not its motion-controlled solution introduces a camera.

And from the same article:

“The hardware is even more powerful than current HD consoles and backwards compatible with Wii. The controller will be all-new and has an HD screen."

 

[darthraidr]

i am shocked... i am also curious as to how, if all this is true, will play out. Nintendo's third party support is spotty at best, and there is no way to know how well this system will do (catering to the hardcore on a nintendo system doesn't guarantee sales at all). so will third parties bite? i am sure nintendo doesnt care much about third party support.

anyways, this is all confusing... and i'm sure, if it all ends up being true, the fanboy gushing will be outrageous. praising nintendo for things they should have done 6 years ago... (contrary to nintendo mantra, you can have HD graphics and a new controller, and a robust online experience, you dont need to pick one)

 

[brian577]

(contrary to nintendo mantra, you can have HD graphics and a new controller, and a robust online experience, you dont need to pick one)

I don't Nintendo ever thought they couldn't. HD market penetration wasn't high enough at the Wii's release and unlike Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo didn't have an entire gen to experiment with online console gaming.

 

[darthraidr]

(contrary to nintendo mantra, you can have HD graphics and a new controller, and a robust online experience, you dont need to pick one)

I don't Nintendo ever thought they couldn't. HD market penetration wasn't high enough at the Wii's release and unlike Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo didn't have an entire gen to experiment with online console gaming.

fair enough, nintendo never said they couldnt do all three, they just chose not to, and now they get to play catch up (in terms of HD and online) for being cheap.

i for one have no hopes that nintendo will pull off a decent online system (based on their past history). they certainly offered up a laughable online "service" with the gamecube (56k modem or cable modem for maybe 3 games?). they made improvements with the wii... but even those pale to the original xbox live system.

As for HD graphics, they will be fine, but nintendo has rarely ever wowed anyone with stunning graphics. that isnt to say they cannot pull off stylized graphics.

in the end, good luck to Nintendo if this is all true. i will once again wait to see how it shakes out before i buy one.

 

[brian577]

(contrary to nintendo mantra, you can have HD graphics and a new controller, and a robust online experience, you dont need to pick one)

I don't Nintendo ever thought they couldn't. HD market penetration wasn't high enough at the Wii's release and unlike Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo didn't have an entire gen to experiment with online console gaming.

i for one have no hopes that nintendo will pull off a decent online system (based on their past history). they certainly offered up a laughable online "service" with the gamecube (56k modem or cable modem for maybe 3 games?). they made improvements with the wii... but even those pale to the original xbox live system.

A handful of online games were released for the adapter but none of them were released or supported by Nintendo. They did offer LAN support for Mario Kart Double Dash, Kirby's Air Ride and 1080 Snowboarding but that's it. Like I said, before the Wii they had practically zero experience with online console gaming. The Wii was their first attempt, of course it was going to be minimal, further more I don't recall the original Xbox Live having an online store.