Nintendo's Problem

[HollyJollyHotRod]

I brought this up in another thread and it got me thinking it deserved a thread of it's own. I personnaly have a rather low opinion of Nintendo these days. And I say this as someone who has an NES, SNES, N64, and a Wii. As a 26 year old, Nintendo was the 90's for me, theres was nothing else as far as I cared. I didnt even look at another system untill the PS2 came along. But now a days I feel that Nintendo does not care about me, being someone over the years of puberty. Don't get me wrong, I do get some enjoyment from the Wii and the likes of the various Mario/Zelda/Donkey Kong/ Wii (insert activity here) games, but still, they are all very clearly aimed at younger crowd. Sure, the older generations can enjoy them, but I would like to have something aimed at me and my age group. Not someone 15 years younger. I understand that the games for younger players fly off the shelf, but could Nintendo atleast attempt a few more mature titles. I do need to give them some props for trying Goldeneye again and even a Dead Space title, but fact is they really were not that good, nor were they actually made Nintendo. Just once I'd love to see the force that is Nintendo put some zelda like effort into a Mature title, maybe even a new IP. Say what you will about PS3 and 360, but they atleast found a balance in that they make great games for young and old. At this, Nintendo FAILS.

 

[backstept]

it also seems like Nintendo is stuck in the past in terms of technology. I mean, the original xbox which is a decade old has better graphics than the WII

 

[infinix]

Well, in truth, no big global company cares about the individual consumer. They may not even care about individual consumer segments.

It is obvious that Nintendo is still going after the same demographic as it did back in the 90's. And judging by the financial success of Wii and DS, Nintendo is doing a great job. This translates into "Business as usual and no need to change."

 

[Robert Maxwell]

That would be a valid criticism if Nintendo was interested in having cutting-edge technology in their home consoles, but they aren't. The Wii is an updated Gamecube with a different control mechanism. Means they had a lot less in R&D costs to defray, unlike Sony, which sunk so much into the PS3 they have to milk this generation for all it's worth--they're nowhere near ready to launch a "PS4."

Edit: My response was to backstept.

 

[infinix]

That would be a valid criticism if Nintendo was interested in having cutting-edge technology in their home consoles, but they aren't. The Wii is an updated Gamecube with a different control mechanism. Means they had a lot less in R&D costs to defray, unlike Sony, which sunk so much into the PS3 they have to milk this generation for all it's worth--they're nowhere near ready to launch a "PS4."

Edit: My response was to backstept.

And I would also like to add that Sony and Microsoft did not develop more powerful consoles because they care about gamers. They did it because they believe it gives them a competitive advantage over Nintendo. Its never personal. Its all business.

Sony and MS coming out with their own version of the non-traditional gaming interface (ala Wiimote) are perfect examples of how its all about making money.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

That would be a valid criticism if Nintendo was interested in having cutting-edge technology in their home consoles, but they aren't. The Wii is an updated Gamecube with a different control mechanism. Means they had a lot less in R&D costs to defray, unlike Sony, which sunk so much into the PS3 they have to milk this generation for all it's worth--they're nowhere near ready to launch a "PS4."

Edit: My response was to backstept.

And I would also like to add that Sony and Microsoft did not develop more powerful consoles because they care about gamers. They did it because they believe it gives them a competitive advantage to Nintendo. Its never personal. Its all business.

Sony and MS coming out with their own version of the non-traditional gaming interface (ala Wiimote) are perfect examples of how its all about making money.

Yup. And Nintendo makes a shit ton of money doing what they do. They also went after the "casual" gamer market, which both Sony and Microsoft ignored with their current offerings.

 

[BlobVanDam]

Seeing Nintendo's sales figures, I doubt they see any problem with their approach.
The 360 and PS3 have the "mature" gamers market well and truly saturated and highly competitive. The one big reason Nintendo are still around today is because they don't compete for that market segment.
The Nintendo making kiddy games criticism has been around forever, and is even more valid now than it was in the 64 days, and it looks like that's what they want. Their console and games are clearly aimed at children and families, rather than specifically at older gamers. If you want the games aimed at older gamers, you're barking up the wrong console.

 

[HollyJollyHotRod]

But would it kill them to even attempt a more mature title? I'm not expecting them to try and compete with Gears of War or Manhunt. But i would just hope to see a bit of an effort. What's the worse that could happen?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

But would it kill them to even attempt a more mature title? I'm not expecting them to try and compete with Gears of War or Manhunt. But i would just hope to see a bit of an effort. What's the worse that could happen?

What do you mean by "mature" titles? Blood, guts, swearing, and nudity? You're right, Nintendo tends not to go for those things.

Doesn't mean all of their games are shallow, kiddie fluff, though.

 

[bigdaddy]

They made Giest for the GameCube, that was a first person shooter. It was poorly made.

My problem with Nintendo is with the Wii they never take any risks and push the system to it's limits. They just make things that use the Wiimote as an NES controller. The Gamecube at least had Chibi Robo, Cubivore, Giest, Doshin, Pikmin and Animal Crossing. Now it just seems they make Mario games all the time and never try anything new.

However that can be said about all video games today.

 

[Starbreaker]

The only thing Nintendo has done that's been remotely interesting since 2000 is the excellent Mario Galaxy games.

 

[Kelthaz]

But would it kill them to even attempt a more mature title? I'm not expecting them to try and compete with Gears of War or Manhunt. But i would just hope to see a bit of an effort. What's the worse that could happen?

How about Pokemon and Pikmin? Those are very complex, mature games.

 

[TheGodBen]

But would it kill them to even attempt a more mature title? I'm not expecting them to try and compete with Gears of War or Manhunt. But i would just hope to see a bit of an effort. What's the worse that could happen?

Rockstar tried that with Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars. GTA is a recognisable name, it's one of the best selling franchises in gaming and it garnered the highest average review score in the history of the DS. Its sales were very disappointing.

Nintendo and its consoles just aren't for mature games, the majority of Nintendo's customers don't want those games. If Nintendo can make more money by making Wii Play 3: Mii's Revenge, that's what they'll make.

 

[Roland19]

I'm a huge Nintendo fan. I have a Wii & a 3DS. I'm very excited about the future for the 3DS. I do think the Wii is in on its way out. I know that Nintendo could have done better with the Wii, but I do think they put together a good system. It looks like they are going to do everything they SHOULD have done on the Wii & more on the 3DS though.

I'm a Sony fan too. I use to be a 360 fan. I still think the 360 is OK, but I do think Sony's graphics, games, etc are better than the 360. Sony is better in the graphics department than the Wii too (duh right?).

That said, I find it really annoying that Sony & Microsoft tend to copy what Nintendo does a lot. Especially recently. Look at the 360's "avatars" (*cough*Mis*cough).

Or Sony & Microsoft's Move & Kinect (*cough*Wiiremote*cough) or Sony's NGP's AR features and touch screens (gee, where did they get those ideas?)

I do think Sony & Microsoft put out some good games. They are solid systems. I'm not a Nintendo fanboy. I've enjoyed all the systems. I do think Nintendo has made mistakes when it comes to the Wii (no hard drive, friend lists, Wii speak etc).

That said, I like that Nintendo does its own thing. It doesn't copy from Sony & Microsoft. It doesn't bad mouth Sony or Microsoft either (look at Sony's recent comments about the 3DS...lol).

Nintendo is not perfect. Neither is Microsoft or Sony. I think what Nintendo does GREAT though is that they focus on the Gaming. They are worried about giving the gamers experiances that they've never had before. Look at the Wii. there was nothing like it when it came out. Sure graphics wise its not impressive, but gameplay wise the Wii Remote was an innovation (so much so that Sony & Microsoft just HAD to have it).

Look at the 3DS. Not only are they innovating in their use of 3D, but they are taking steps to have the best Online featured portable system (eShop,browser in May).

As for the whole thing about mature themed titles, it doesn't bug me. I can just play my PS3 if I want to play an M+ game. I like that Nintendo focuses on games that anyone can play. They also have Iconic characters. Lots of people around the world know and enjoy the Nintendo characters. The same can't really be said for Sony or Microsoft. I mean, sure, Microsoft has Master Chief, but Master Chief isn't really widely known character or at least not one that appeals to a vast majority of people.

Nintendo may fail in some areas (Mature games, hard-drives, graphics), but they really soar above others in other areas imo (characters, gameplay, controllers, 3D).

Oh and Nintendo, imo, had the BEST E3 showing last year. Speaking as a PS3 fan, I was disappointed in Sony's showing (too focused on Casual fans) and Microsofts was pathetic (Kinect looked awful). And Nintendo is sure to have a great showing this year at E3 too. Here's hoping Sony & Microsoft focus more on Gamers this year too.

Anyway, my point is that there is plenty room for all three systems. In fact, I think every gamer should at least own two of the systems. A Nintendo console and one of the other ones. Pick your poison. lol.

 

[Owain Taggart]

That would be a valid criticism if Nintendo was interested in having cutting-edge technology in their home consoles, but they aren't. The Wii is an updated Gamecube with a different control mechanism. Means they had a lot less in R&D costs to defray, unlike Sony, which sunk so much into the PS3 they have to milk this generation for all it's worth--they're nowhere near ready to launch a "PS4."

Edit: My response was to backstept.

Yep, exactly. Their strategy was to bring consoles back into mainstream, or more precisely, get the Nintendo name back into mainstream. I mean, sure, consoles in general were everywhere, but in terms of mainstream, I don't think everybody had one like the Atari 2600, and I feel this is what Nintendo was trying to achieve, and when you think about it, it's a remarkable achievement. They got people who would never have gamed before pick it up and play it, denoting a wide age range from young kids to seniors in long-term care facilities. That's remarkable. If I remember right, logistically speaking, Nintendo had less and less of a userbase with each subsequent console. They were a far cry from their original NES userbase, so much so that by the time they were developing their next console after the Gamecube, they realized they needed something to get Nintendo back into people's homes. They needed something that would make people sit up and take notice. And you know what? Everybody talks about the Wii everywhere you go, so it was a slam dunk for Nintendo, who got in there first with motion controls. They needed that risk to take. They took it and it paid off handsomely, and look who are following Nintendo's lead. Mission accomplished.

For Nintendo, it wasn't about the graphics. It was about the accessability to a wide range of ages and demographics. Now that we know how popular the Wii is, I'm sure Nintendo will be developing a console to rival the next X-Box and PS4 in terms of graphics including their now famous motion control.

Is the Wii the best console? Oh, heck no. But it at least put Nintendo's foot in the door again and let the world know it meant business. I'm pretty sure they'll take that innovation even further in the next version of the Wii, whatever it is.

 

[The Fatman]

I do understand your POV, HotRod. But as others have pointed out, there HAVE been attempts and examples of mature games on the Wii/GC/DS in the last few years, and none of them have been big hits. Yes, a lot of them like Dead Space or Red Steel just weren't very good games... but even highly reviewed titles didn't sell nearly as well as predicted or should have (Resident Evil 4 and GTA: Chinatown Wars both come to mind immediately).

As a side note, not directed at any one in particular... why do most people assume that "Family" or "All Ages" means "aimed at kids"? Just because there isn't swearing, or hyper-realistic violence does not mean Zelda: Twilight Princess is a game for kids. In my experience, the Big N's AAA titles tend to be deep, rich gaming experiences that fully challenge and satisfy me as an adult (I am 30 years old), but on the other hand are absolutely OK for my kids (5 and 1) to watch me play or to try to play along too. Hell, I can tell you that even my now 10 year old nephew couldn't beat Super Mario Galaxy or Mario Kart Wii on his own, and if that isn't the "kiddie" demo, I don't know what is.

Also, on a business note... I absolutely think Nintendo was brilliant with the Wii. While Sony and Microsoft went hardcore pushing HD, at the time HDTV only had something like a 15% penetration in the US. There was simply no real need to drive up material and R&D costs for that low of a number. They also saved themselves a bunch of money by NOT having DVD playback enabled in the hardware, as very very few people don't have a DVD player already, and Nintendo would have had to pay the DVD Forum per console sold. Long story short, Nintendo was profitable right out of the gate with Wii, something I know for a fact Sony and Microsoft can't say (and I believe I have read that between R&D, and the loss they took on each unit sold until last year, the PS3 will NEVER turn a profit).

The only big missteps I believe the Wii made was A) low internal storage and limited expandability, and B) Poor online implementation. I understand the reasons they made the choices they made in those areas, but that doesn't mean they were right. Hindsight is of course 20/20.

NOW... all that said, I do think it's time for a new console from Nintendo. They were absolutely fine this generation despite fanboy bitching (I mean that generally, not at anyone specifically), but now HDTV penetration is much, much higher and MS and Sony have stolen their gimmick with motion control. I don't think 3D is ready for prime-time in the living room (3dTV is a joke, no one wants to use 3d glasses at home), so I don't know exactly how Nintendo can innovate with a new console. Ultimately, I would be happy if they just did a Wii 2, with a HDD and simple 720p HD output.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Ultimately, I would be happy if they just did a Wii 2, with a HDD and simple 720p HD output.

Agreed. And if they can make it backwards compatible with the Wii, they'd have a lock-in. One of the bigger complaints I always hear about the Wii is lack of HD, and if they went forward with HD on the next one while making the Wii games look better, I think they'd likely win even more fans while at the same time giving owners of the original an incentive to upgrade.

 

[HollyJollyHotRod]

Some very good points have been made. Some even make me rethink my opinion. This is a good thing.

Though I still do have a desire to see some more adult titles, by which I mean more adult themes. Not necessarily blood and guts, or nudity, or even swearing. Just maybe more mature. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed alot of what Nintendo has come out with, I'd just like to see them try something new. But they always do seem to play it safe. Just imagine if Nintendo put their full effort, like they do with Mario and Zelda, into some new IP that was as deep as Mass Effect. Or as crazy fun as Just Cause 2. Both M rated games, but hardly that raunchy. I'm aware of the hardware limitations, but I'm talking more about story and gameplay then I am about graphics. I just really want to see Nintendo atleast try to push the Wii to it's limits.

 

[bigdaddy]

^ I agree with that and is actually my number one issue with the new Nintendo. Peopel think the GC is crap, but the new IP games, or somewhat new (Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Chibi Robo) are all great. Now they just don't bother to try anything new or exciting. But I guess they don't need to when Wii Sports 105: Wii Play Pool Games sells 198 million copies in a game that looks like a demo.

 

[Kelthaz]

Just maybe more mature. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed alot of what Nintendo has come out with, I'd just like to see them try something new. But they always do seem to play it safe. Just imagine if Nintendo put their full effort, like they do with Mario and Zelda, into some new IP that was as deep as Mass Effect.

You keep using that word (mature). I do not think it means what you think it means.

Mature Nintendo titles and franchises

Pokemon (seriously)
Pikmin
Advance Wars
Eternal Darkness
Metroid
F-Zero
Fire Emblem