Neelix...Why all the hate?

[exodus]

It always gave me the impression that he's speaking to her like a young teen, not full adult.
He's speaking down to her as if her generation doesn't understand tradtion.
Isn't that the sign of a generation gap?

There is a generation gap; but Kes is not exhibiting petulance in this conversation, and he doesn't treat her like she is. I was impressed that he let her have her say and didn't try to prevent her defying their traditions; she walked away with him looking after, mulling over what she'd said.

That just tells me that Kes was raised properly, not that she's an adult.

If she's already an adult coming onboard Voyager, then what's the point of watching her grow up and eventually die? Why make her live 9 years, if she's already considered a grown adult when we meet her?
We've already missed the important lessons that shaped her personality by then.

 

[Dukhat]

I swear Officer, she looked and acted like she was 21. How was I too know she was really two?" Next on: To Catch A Predator w/ Stone Philips.

I think this was the point.
Regardless of how she acted or was treated, you still have to remember she's not really an adult. Many young adults believe and are treated like adults, until they are 18 or 21. They aren't.

And if this show were in any way based in actual reality, then I'd get that point. But it's not. Regardless of the fact that Kes was two years old, her actions, lines, and the person who played her was adult. From what I remember of watching the show, there wasn't a single time I ever got the impression that she was some kind of little baby trapped in a full-grown body, and no one else on the ship (Kes included) felt that way either.

Plus, you're attributing realistic, human mores onto a fictional alien species. As far as we know, it's perfectly fine and legal for a two-year old alien woman who looks and acts like an adult to be treated as one in the Delta Quadrant of the 24th century.

If Kes hasn't reached maturity, isn't a sexual relationship with her still rape? It's that why tthe writers gave Neelix & Kes seperate quarters, to imply they weren't fucking?

I'd bet that not a single person involved with the show ever once thought of this. They probably gave them separate quarters for no reason whatsoever.

 

[exodus]

And if this show were in any way based in actual reality, then I'd get that point. But it's not. Regardless of the fact that Kes was two years old, her actions, lines, and the person who played her was adult. From what I remember of watching the show, there wasn't a single time I ever got the impression that she was some kind of little baby trapped in a full-grown body, and no one else on the ship (Kes included) felt that way either.

From what I saw, Kes didn't interact enough with anybody else but Tuvok & the Doc. to get a full perpective on how they viewed her. She behaved like a child too me during "Twisted", "Coldfire" and at the start of "Elogium", even saying she was too young to enter puberty. Again, if the point was to watch her grow up while on the show then wouldn't making her an adult at the start cut that whole point short? How can you watch someone grow up, if they already are?

I'd bet that not a single person involved with the show ever once thought of this. They probably gave them separate quarters for no reason whatsoever.

..but yet thought about it & did it within all the other Treks where two people were in a serious sexually active relationship?

 

[Jeri]

That just tells me that Kes was raised properly, not that she's an adult...If she's already an adult coming onboard Voyager, then what's the point of watching her grow up and eventually die? Why make her live 9 years, if she's already considered a grown adult when we meet her? We've already missed the important lessons that shaped her personality by then...

Ocampans aren't humans, and she is clearly a young adult, since this fellow is grandfatherly and her own father is portrayed by an actor who isn't much older than Jennifer. She looks like an adult to us, though, and we really don't know the maturation details of Ocampans. It's something arguable, precisely because we can't know.

 

[exodus]

That just tells me that Kes was raised properly, not that she's an adult...If she's already an adult coming onboard Voyager, then what's the point of watching her grow up and eventually die? Why make her live 9 years, if she's already considered a grown adult when we meet her? We've already missed the important lessons that shaped her personality by then...

Ocampans aren't humans, and she is clearly a young adult, since this fellow is grandfatherly and her own father is portrayed by an actor who isn't much older than Jennifer. She looks like an adult to us, though, and we really don't know the maturation details of Ocampans. It's something arguable, precisely because we can't know.

We could had they actually had a clue themselves what Kes was supposed be. If TPTB admitted they wrote her wrong, how can any of us be sure what she's supposed to be? Everything about her was a contradiction. Wise but naive, Strong willed yet subserviant, Adult yet hasn't gone thru puberty, mature but only 2.

If Kes was wise and an adult, would she really need Janeway to telling her to give serious thought before running off with a man she didn't know in "Darkling"? Don't we tell children not to run off with strangers?
Yet when Seven does it we say she's being emotionally immature.

 

[lurok]

As exodus suggests, always struck me that Kes was a 'child' (by our narrow human terms) in VOY, even though looked and spoke as a woman. Not sure whether it's a sad reflection on our society or fault of writers that we should be discussing implications of this so many years later.

 

[Jetfire]

Like all Talaxians, Neelix looked like a mangy & diseased animal...I wasn't feeling it...Ethan Phillips did a great job and wished they would have designed a much "cooler" alien for him to play. I personally didn't have too much of a problem with the character...but there was never really much there for me to care about. Neelix was comic fodder...nothing more. IMO. "Jetrel" was the only time I found the character compelling.

 

[exodus]

Like all Talaxians, Neelix looked like a mangy & diseased animal...

They were war orphans living on "the street".
How are poor, starving, homeless refugees supposed to look like?

 

[Jetfire]

Like all Talaxians, Neelix looked like a mangy & diseased animal...

They were war orphans living on "the street".
How are poor, starving, homeless refugees supposed to look like?

That has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[exodus]

Like all Talaxians, Neelix looked like a mangy & diseased animal...

They were war orphans living on "the street".
How are poor, starving, homeless refugees supposed to look like?

That has nothing to do with what I said.

Same way calling him mangy and diseased didn't relate to the rest of what you said about his performance.

 

[Jetfire]

God forbid I find Talaxians unappealing...or have an opinion. These are just my random thoughts and opinions...I am not debating the significance of the history behind Talaxian species. I think the design for that species looks ridiculous...much suited for a background alien and not a main cast member...again it is my personal preference...but I guess I am not supposed to have that either.

 

[Jeri]

We could had they actually had a clue themselves what Kes was supposed be. If TPTB admitted they wrote her wrong, how can any of us be sure what she's supposed to be?...

The contradictions don't concern me; in fact, I find the aura of mystery good. Most of all, though, it's not enough to convict Neelix or Tom of child molestation.

 

[Dukhat]

..but yet thought about it & did it within all the other Treks where two people were in a serious sexually active relationship?

No, that's just you taking this completely out of context from what the producers intended just to try to justify your flimsy pedophile argument.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

"I will poison you all."

 

[eepruls]

My goodness people. Ocampa live only 9 years. How long are they supposed to wait before getting a little action! LOL. In Canada, and many other countries, if there is consent at a certain age, then all is good. I mean seriously, we're talking pedophilia on Voyager? Come on now.

 

[Jeri]

teacake, funny

 

[Mach5]

My goodness people. Ocampa live only 9 years. How long are they supposed to wait before getting a little action!

Usually, one is considered biologically ready for "action" once one is able to reproduce. Kes wasn't.

 

[barnaclelapse]

1.) For the most part, he's simply annoying. Actually, "grating on the nerves" is a more apt description.

2.) He comes across as downright stupid in more than his far share of episodes.

3.) He's essentially a failure as a character.

4.) His personality is so damn sickeningly sweet that I feel I need an insulin shot after each viewing.

For further reasons, watch some of SFDebris' video reviews of VOY on YouTube. There's a lot I disagree with him on in those reviews, but one thing he gets 100% right is his description of Neelix.

I can agree with those reasons, but I do commend the writers for trying to create a somewhat different character. It just didn't work most of the time.

 

[exodus]

..but yet thought about it & did it within all the other Treks where two people were in a serious sexually active relationship?

No, that's just you taking this completely out of context from what the producers intended just to try to justify your flimsy pedophile argument.

Let's make a list of how many characters in Trek that were seriously romantcally involved that shared quarters and see.

God forbid I find Talaxians unappealing...or have an opinion. These are just my random thoughts and opinions...I am not debating the significance of the history behind Talaxian species.

My bad.
I misunderstood the intentions of your post as looking to debate.
No hard feelings.

 

[Dukhat]

Let's make a list of how many characters in Trek that were seriously romantcally involved that shared quarters and see.

You go make a list. I don't care about this topic that much (other than pointing out that to argue that Neelix was a pedophile is just ridiculously stupid no matter how you try to justify it to yourself).