This kind of quote alteration isn't cool. Please knock it out.
Plinkett is back
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This kind of quote alteration isn't cool. Please knock it out.
Plinkett's reviews have never been accurate. I watched his Generations, First Contact and Insurrection reviews, and most of the major criticism was simply based on misinformation and misinterpretation.
I call that Michael-Moore-style, given how he always twists facts to make a point. The point may be a good one, but the facts are still twisted.
I call that Michael-Moore-style, given how he always twists facts to make a point. The point may be a good one, but the facts are still twisted.
I do consider myself a 2 in that image, but leaning close to the centre. I somewhat enjoy the prequels and I intend to watch and enjoy them in the future. But I agree with Plinkett on almost every point and those rebuttals are not doing much to convince me otherwise.
How does that even address the point that Plinkett was making? Plinkett was complaining about how nothing that happens in the movie is controlled by the protagonist, so the rebuttal is about how Anakin, who may or may not be paying attention, is sitting in a throne room while someone else watches the news of the war?
Although I agree that Qui-Gon was a much stronger character than most people give him credit for, the rebuttal breaks Plinkett's rule that you cannot explain the character's role in the story. Taking Anakin under his wing and how he treats him is his role in the story.
That's what Plinkett said. They were sent to settle a dispute which was over taxation. The taxation was the reason for the blockade.
Fair enough, but they could have just asked if the Jedi wanted refills and put the poison in those cups. Plinkett's point was how the Jedi were being far too laid back on what was a dangerous mission and there were many, many ways they could have been killed besides the incredibly incompetent way the Trade Federation went about it.
It addresses the manner in which he was making it. Plinkett implied Anakin was clueless about the whole thing, which was clearly not true. People who try to make a point with false statements have merit nowadays?
Sure, but even if you throw that taking Anakin under his wing and how he treats him stuff out, the fact remains, the rebuttal guy still successfully proved that Qui-Gon in fact can be described without saying what he looked like, what kind of costume he wore, or what his profession or role was in the movie".
By then, the Jedi would have sensed something was up. They needed to kill them quickly, and everyone in the whole damn galaxy probably knew how ineffective blasters were against the Jedi. Poisonous gas was IMO a pretty good idea, though the selection of the gas itself was retarded (but lets just assume they didn't have anything better).
Kelthaz, your argument is sound as is your reasoning, but when the opposition in a debate manufactures their defense (the Plinkett is a liar defense), there's just no winning. The rebuttal is full of more shit like this that either misses the point or nitpicks at small points that don't really matter. It's nothing but a long essay that could be used to illustrate the meaning of the phrase "missing the forest for the trees" as I said earlier upthread.
In a modern day world, when you accuse someone of "manufacturing", you're supposed to provide some proof of that. Otherwise, its just slander.
Now please tell us, what exactly do you find "manufactured" and why?
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You know what have worked faster? Open the fucking window in the room.
Yeah, but what if these windows don't open? Break them?
General Grievous tried that in Episode III, but those Jedi SOB's still survived.
Yeah, but what if these windows don't open? Break them?
General Grievous tried that in Episode III, but those Jedi SOB's still survived.
I can't imagine there is NO way to remove the air from a deck or two. Come one, it's not like the droids need them.
Grievous tried that, but then he seemed to be only in the upper atmosphere.... if only he was just a WEE bit higher.
hell, if you're ship seems to be run by droids, why are you wasting all those resources on an atmosphere?
I suppose I should clarify:
In my scientific chart made with SCIENCE!, there are no hard and fast numbers. The images are basically signposts to give the general idea. Basically, the further away from normal you go, the crazier you become.
Plinkett does say that things are either outside Anakin's control or understanding. Not necessarily both at the same time.
Examples: The politics of the whole situation and/or the supposed return of the Sith; likely outside of his understanding. The suffering of the Naboo people; likely outside of his control.
In my scientific chart made with SCIENCE!, there are no hard and fast numbers. The images are basically signposts to give the general idea. Basically, the further away from normal you go, the crazier you become.
Plinkett does say that things are either outside Anakin's control or understanding. Not necessarily both at the same time.
Examples: The politics of the whole situation and/or the supposed return of the Sith; likely outside of his understanding. The suffering of the Naboo people; likely outside of his control.
Is the assumption here that Anakin's the protagonist? Because I'd disagree with that.
Anakin is still a kid, right? And he's a protagonist in the making. He understands that some bad corrupt people have invaded Naboo (for whatever reason), and that some bad people called Sith (one of which he saw on Tatooine) are probably behind it (also for whatever reason).
Phantom Menace doesn't have a clear protagonist, that's for sure, though IMO Qui-Gon is fairly close to it. He has the most screen time, and the best understanding of what's going on (even though no one knows what the fuck is REALLY going on until the very end of Episode III).
BTW, all this protagonist bullshit is overrated anyway, if you ask me. A good movie (or a TV show) doesn't necessarily need one. For example, Kurosawa's Seven Samurai. Can anyone really single out one of these seven and say with certainty: "He's the protagonist!"? Hell, LOTR doesn't have a clear protagonist either. Sure, some will say "It's Frodo!", but there will also be folks who say it's Aragorn, or even Gandalf. OK, perhaps not Gandalf... Whatever.
Phantom Menace doesn't have a clear protagonist, that's for sure, though IMO Qui-Gon is fairly close to it. He has the most screen time, and the best understanding of what's going on (even though no one knows what the fuck is REALLY going on until the very end of Episode III).
That's BS. The Phantom Menace is only the first chapter of that story, which should have taken shape in Episode II, and finally resolve itself in Episode III. The main problem is - Attack of the Clones didn't do what it was supposed to.
BTW, all this protagonist bullshit is overrated anyway, if you ask me. A good movie (or a TV show) doesn't necessarily need one. For example, Kurosawa's Seven Samurai. Can anyone really single out one of these seven and say with certainty: "He's the protagonist!"? Hell, LOTR doesn't have a clear protagonist either. Sure, some will say "It's Frodo!", but there will also be folks who say it's Aragorn, or even Gandalf. OK, perhaps not Gandalf... Whatever.
Going by the rules of thumb ("The Protagonist is the character that suffers most," "The Protagonist is the character that arcs"), it seems as strong a case to me that Obi-Wan was the protagonist of Episode I. Also, there's nothing necessarily wrong with a protagonist whose story is outside of his influence, like in Ferris Bueller's Day Off and Raiders of the Lost Ark.
How could ObiWan be the protagonist.. he was on the ship the whole time?
Ferris was the Protagonist of that movie, and Indiana Jones of raiders. What's teh problem?
Ferris was the Protagonist of that movie, and Indiana Jones of raiders. What's teh problem?
I'd say Qui Gon is definitely the closest to a single protagonist in Episode I. Obi Wan also has a decent argument, as noted. Really though, I'd say there is no clear protagonist, with Qui Gon, Obi Wan, Padme, and Anakin all having their moments. And that's fine by me.
Let me first start by saying that I think Plinkett is way over the top, and I find the kidnapper/murderer reference especially distasteful.
However, I agree with him on the points about the convoluted plot and the lack of any characters who we can care about and relate to. This wasn't so in the OT.
PT was supposed to focus on the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker. He should have been the focal point and the protagonist of all three movies. But he clearly wasn't. There were always so many things happening around Anakin that were absolutely out of his control. I feel like Anakin was led into the dark side out of stupidity rather than "seduced by the dark side" out of a thirst for power.
I get that Anakin was devastated about the death of his mother and I get that Anakin was afraid of Padme dying during child birth. But the fact that Anakin inadvertently saved the queen of an entire planet in TPM yet this queen never thought to purchase the freedom of the mother of this young "hero" is absurd. Also, to suggest that in a society where artificial limbs can be perfected to the point of feeling pain, that some unforeseen complication during child birth could kill the mother, is insulting. If Anakin felt like Padme was in danger, perform a C-Section for heaven's sake.
Now, if you are going to tell me that "Anakin's mind was clouded by the dark side." Then Anakin was never really seduced, was he? He never was a good guy who's thirst for power turned him to the dark side. The PT showed us an Anakin who was basically always a pawn in Palpatine's plan, through and through.
However, I agree with him on the points about the convoluted plot and the lack of any characters who we can care about and relate to. This wasn't so in the OT.
PT was supposed to focus on the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker. He should have been the focal point and the protagonist of all three movies. But he clearly wasn't. There were always so many things happening around Anakin that were absolutely out of his control. I feel like Anakin was led into the dark side out of stupidity rather than "seduced by the dark side" out of a thirst for power.
I get that Anakin was devastated about the death of his mother and I get that Anakin was afraid of Padme dying during child birth. But the fact that Anakin inadvertently saved the queen of an entire planet in TPM yet this queen never thought to purchase the freedom of the mother of this young "hero" is absurd. Also, to suggest that in a society where artificial limbs can be perfected to the point of feeling pain, that some unforeseen complication during child birth could kill the mother, is insulting. If Anakin felt like Padme was in danger, perform a C-Section for heaven's sake.
Now, if you are going to tell me that "Anakin's mind was clouded by the dark side." Then Anakin was never really seduced, was he? He never was a good guy who's thirst for power turned him to the dark side. The PT showed us an Anakin who was basically always a pawn in Palpatine's plan, through and through.
First, that shit is funny as hell.
Put it another way, without it there would be no Plinkett reviews. He started using it in Generations review, because his own voice was boring and he wanted to make you guess what kind of crazy thing he'd say next, and it evolved from there. My friends, who don't care about Trek, but have cared about his analysis of the films and may in fact watch those films now, tune into these reviews for the crazy comedy. It's almost self-parody, of how something needs to keep the attention span of those people watching shit like you tube. Who would watch a 70 minute review with no edge at all? And if you tune into the internet for taste, well you are out of luck. By using this creepy persona, one that is over the top and sick, he actually has more taste than the films he is reviewing.
go to church. no one is stopping you.
Its funny until it happens to someone you care about. But wait a minute, let me get this straight. Even though I basically agree with what Plinkett has to say, and I like the sarcastic humor (- the kidnap/murder), you are going to simple pick out my first sentence and run with that?
For what it's worth, I have no problem if you find the humor offensive. Nothing is more subjective than humor and while I think it's hilarious, I can definitely see how someone might not think so.
As to your points about protagonists and stupidity of the writing/plot... well, I completely agree so I have nothing more to add to that. He did turn to the dark side because of stupidity in some half-assed attempt to make Darth Vader a tragic figure. All it really did was make him a laughable figure.
As to your points about protagonists and stupidity of the writing/plot... well, I completely agree so I have nothing more to add to that. He did turn to the dark side because of stupidity in some half-assed attempt to make Darth Vader a tragic figure. All it really did was make him a laughable figure.
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