Kirk vs. Reynolds

[infinix]

Reynolds, as in captain of Serenity.

Yeah, we are not talking about who has a better ship. But what I'm bringing up are two points.

1. Bare Knuckles Fight, anything goes. Who wins?

2. Could Kirk captain the Serenity better than Reynold and could Reynold captain the Enterprise better than Kirk?

Personally, I didn't grow up idolizing Kirk so I vote Reynolds all the way. It'd be a much closer call if we replace Kirk with either Picard or Sisko.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

Only if this song plays in the background will I watch this battle of fisticuffs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Rl46Dpy-P4

 

[Lapis Exilis]

I'll bite.

Reynolds, as in captain of Serenity.

Yeah, we are not talking about who has a better ship. But what I'm bringing up are two points.

1. Bare Knuckles Fight, anything goes. Who wins?

Honestly, I think both Mal and Jim are equally dirty fighters when it gets down to sheer survival. Kirk might have an edge due to training in hand-to-hand, which I never got the sense Mal had. But Mal can be clever in the midst of a fight - I have to say it's a draw.

2. Could Kirk captain the Serenity better than Reynold and could Reynold captain the Enterprise better than Kirk?

Mal wouldn't last 2 minutes in Starfleet - much too regimented, even in the wild and woolly days of the 23rd century. He'd hate it, they'd hate him and he'd walk. On the same score, I think Kirk, for all his reputation as a rebel isn't enough of a rebel to essentially be a scavenging pirate. That is, he's good at being a rebel within the highly structured environment of Starfleet. Unless, like Mal, he'd gone through some life-changing trauma. And that's the key to the whole thing. Mal kinda is Kirk - after he's lost all hope and has nothing to cling to except personal freedom. But that's such a significant character change that they couldn't swap places.

Personally, I didn't grow up idolizing Kirk so I vote Reynolds all the way. It'd be a much closer call if we replace Kirk with either Picard or Sisko.

It's not about idolizing Kirk, but about understanding the characters. Mal wouldn't do any better on board the Enterprise-D or E, or DS9 for that matter. Starfleet is the antithesis of everything he believes in by the time we encounter him in the Firefly stories. And he's much closer in fundamental nature to Kirk than to Picard or Sisko. Picard's a pretty by the book sort of guy, highly principled and uncompromising. Mal will compromise principles in an instant to survive. Sisko's got a bit of rebel in him - but he's a father, which gives him a groundedness and conservatism that even Picard and Kirk don't have, so it ends up being less a bit of rebel and more a streak of stubornness. Look at how long it took him to accept his position as Emissary (that alone would send Mal running, screaming for the hills), and how, once he did, he quietly but firmly resisted Starfleet's efforts to control how he played that role.

Only if this song plays in the background will I watch this battle of fisticuffs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Rl46Dpy-P4

Well - yeah, that kinda goes without saying, doesn't it?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Mal would cheat. Then again, so would Kirk. I call it a draw.

BATMAN FTW!

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Kirk, of course.

He's a famed bare knuckle brawler, as we've seen from incidents such as his showdown with the Gorn and his barney with that imaginary guy who annoyed him at the academy.

As for commanding a Starship, three words: Balance of Terror. Kirk's a trained leader and strategist. Plus, he has a wealth of experience from weird adventures and encounters. He'd lick those slackers on Serenity into shape in no time.

As a character, Mal Reynolds was entertaining, for sure, but he wasn't half the conquering hero Jim Kirk was!

BATMAN FTW!

Nah, Superman all the way.

 

[Scout101]

Going to lean towards Kirk on all of the questions, i think...

1. Kirk would be my vote in a fight. Both pretty scrappy, and not afraid to mix it up, but whereas Mal always seems to be kind of winging it, Kirk's had a lot of (presumably) hand to hand combat training thoughout his career. Mal would hold his own, but have to think Kirk wins.

2. Along the same lines Kirk would last a lot longer on Serenity than Mal would on the Enterprise. Mal just doesn't have the needed attitude, and in fact rebels against everything Starfleet would represent. For a very short period, maybe, but he'd never make it that far. Kirk has been shown to be pretty adaptable to blending in in non-Starfleet situations (how many random or silly situations did he come out on top in?), so think he'd be just fine on Serenity. He'd have a tougher time surviving long-term unless his morals became a little more *flexible*, as you'd have to break the character a bit for the non-legit *crime* type jobs to be acceptable, but he's definitely got the skills to handle the job. Personality, command presence, people skills, he'd handle the ship just fine. Certainly last longer than Mal on the Enterprise, anyway.

As for the other captains? Can't see them doing as well. Picard in particular wouldn't last 5 minutes, just not his scene...

 

[marillion]

Bare-knuckle brawl? Mal... If he sees an opportunity to win, even if it means playing dirty, he'll do it.. Kirk, while a crafty fighter, would stop short of dirty tricks. That said, on an equal playing field, Kirk's stamina would outlast Mal's, due to physical fitness and training.

I agree with those who say that Mal wouldn't last too long with a structure like Starfleet has, whereas Kirk is crafty enough to play act like he fits in, to suit the situation (ie - "A Piece of the Action," and to a lesser extent, "Mirror, Mirror")

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Personality, command presence, people skills, he'd handle the ship just fine.

And there'd be none of this will-they, won't-they between him and Inara. It'd be a done deal inside of a day.

 

[psikeyhackr]

These kind of comparisons are funny.

If you watch the original rejected pilot for Star Trek, "The Cage", then it is obvious that the Star Trek we got was not what Roddenberry really wanted to make. We got what the studios let him make even though he cheated when he could.

The bare knuckle brawling is not realistic for starship captains of the future. If anything Weber's Honor Harrington is more believable as type of fighting technique. Fisticuffs is SO DUMB!

psik

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I actually think Kirk and Mal would become fast friends. Mal may not be Starfleet quality, but I think he and Kirk could respect each other. I don't think there'd have to be a Vs.

If Trek exists as fiction in the FF universe, I could even see Mal being a fan. Kirk would probably be the captain he'd identify with the most.

 

[Caliburn24]

I was taught in the Army that over 90% of all hand to hand combat ends with the two combatants rolling around on the ground grappling. From my own limited personal experience that rule does hold true. There is none of this Hollywood boxing/karate showboating.

Fillion is four inches taller than Shatner, and I'd estimate 40 pounds heavier, given equal conditioning. Fillion wins the ground game and hence the fight.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

I was taught in the Army that over 90% of all hand to hand combat ends with the two combatants rolling around on the ground grappling. From my own limited personal experience that rule does hold true. There is none of this Hollywood boxing/karate showboating.

Maybe, but neither Star Trek nor Firefly takes place in the real world. You've got to look at what would happen in their own universes.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

I was taught in the Army that over 90% of all hand to hand combat ends with the two combatants rolling around on the ground grappling. From my own limited personal experience that rule does hold true. There is none of this Hollywood boxing/karate showboating.

Maybe, but neither Star Trek nor Firefly takes place in the real world. You've got to look at what would happen in their own universes.

Actually Firefly did a good job with that in the marvelous fight scene in "Ariel" which always struck me as one of the most realistic I'd seen on film.

 

[Skywalker]

Personally, I think Mal would wreck Kirk in a hand-to-hand brawl. Kirk has some semblance of decency and fair play. Mal fights dirty. He'd probably take a few good licks before coming out on top, though. But I don't think Mal would last very long aboard Enterprise, whereas Kirk probably wouldn't find captaining Serenity fulfilling enough for him.

 

[davejames]

If we're talking in-universe, then clearly Kirk has the edge in skills and experience. He's fought with all kinds of huge, badass aliens over the years.

But if we're talking about the moves we actually saw on screen, then I'd give it to Mal in a second. I mean, Kirk's big moves were the jumping kick thing, and those cheesy little karate chops to the neck. Don't think ANY of those would be very effective on a big guy like Mal.

 

[Scout101]

Don't forget the double-handed axe chop move, that one was killer

 

[FPAlpha]

In a fight i'd bet on Mal just because he's not above to shoot or stab someone in the back when he's got the chance and is on the ropes (of course being the hero of his show he would only do that to really bad guys).

Kirk, as with all Starfleet officers, wouldn't even kill Hitler if he had the chance but turn him over to authorities.

As to command capability i'd put my money on Kirk.. while Kirk seems (and sometimes is) a brash and hotheaded commander for Starfleet standards he is nonetheless a very capable leader and can adapt to any situation quickly.. he'd also adapt to the Firefly world and become a bit dirty too if that's what it would take.
Mal would also be a capable Starfleet captain but he's not that crazy about rules and likes to bend or break them just for the heck of it.. very frowned upon in an interstellar organization.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Fun fact: There is a "Lieutenant Fillion" in some recent Trek novels (A Time To Kill/Heal).

 

[Nerys Myk]

Personality, command presence, people skills, he'd handle the ship just fine.

And there'd be none of this will-they, won't-they between him and Inara. It'd be a done deal inside of a day.

And then work his charms on the other ladies on board.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Kirks not above grabbing a "belaying pin" or a rock shaped like a penis to beat down a physically superior opponent.