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Star Wars:The Clone Wars S3......so far

How could Anakin posssibly know it wouldn't work?
Because the only time he's seen someone fall to the Dark Side is Ahsoka. She tried to kill him and was obviously completely mind controlled. He doesn't recall anything of his own little Dark Side jaunt on Mortis, so as far as he knows, that's how the Dark Side works. Why would he think he'd have any control over his own mind when he's seen evidence to the contrary?

If he has no control over his own actions, then no plan he could come up with could possibly work, except maybe by random chance or expecting Palps to be a nice guy and do everything for him. Speaking of that...

He's also seen or at least heard of the complete selfishness of Sith. Ventress should serve as example of how Sith treat each other. Put those two together and being a Sith sounds like a losing bet.

As for Palp' malarky about saving Padme, that could have been him just talking out his ass. Anakin never had any reason to trust him and every reason not to: he's a SITH! Hello! :rommie:

What does mind control have do with anything and who cares about a character retconned into existance who has no effect on the prequels? There's no way Anakin could know that Palpatine was lying. As as you pointed out Palpatine didn't outright lie to him.
 
Even something he should know wouldn't work? A plan that is doomed to failure can't save Padme.

He never bought into the rewrite, so there's no reason for him to think it "wouldn't work". Ahsoka "was obviously completely mind controlled", not the same thing.

DWF said:
There's no way Anakin could know that Palpatine was lying.

Especially because he wasn't.

( Of course, by now it should be clear that the definition of lying is a bit broader in SW than in the dictionary or any other context. In SW, if precious Portman doesn't get a perfect outcome, someone done LIED. You can tell the absolute truth and still be called teh lying liar, that's part of the "special" magic of the Lucasverse. )

But in the PT, there was no credible evidence that the Sith were anything but evil.

And there still isn't. The Sith are not the dark side. But if all words are ultimately interchangeable, as we've seen with the phrase "balance of the Force", then by all means continue to replace "dark side" with "Sith" and vice versa.

a smart, power-hungry Anakin would have never fallen for Palps' bullshit.

Since the so-called "bullshit" is actually the literal truth, I think I'm beginning to see what you mean by "smart": a "smart" person is someone who would never believe the literal truth. Yeah, we have other words for that.
 
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Now that the two epic trilogies are done, this is another solid episode thank god. I thought it was brilliant that Artoo got his own battle droid troops to command. They should do this for the rest of the series! :lol:

I think I also the seeds of Ashoka's departure being planted here. Anakin will increasingly refuse to let her come on dangerous missions, fearing of losing her, so finally she's just dissolve their partnership and go off on her own. This way when Order 66 comes down she's off in the middle of nowhere and can manage to survive her troopers' betrayal... or she wasn't with her troops at the time and was on a solo infiltrator assignment when she felt the disturbance in the Force.

Also, I'm amazed they got Christopher Walken to play the warden! Stunt casting! (j/k)
 
Anyone else seen the second part of the Citadel arc? Another good episode in my book. That Even Piel is proving to be quite a bad ass. Plus, it was nice to see some development of the Anakin/Tarkin relationship. Their discussion on using peacekeepers as generals seemed to be more befitting Anakin's general disdain for the Jedi than the whole "waa Padme's dying waaa!" movie plot.
 
I liked part 2, but I don't think a part 3 was really necessary. Starting to feel like a lot of unnecessary running around.
 
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I love the reprogrammed Battle Droids working with the Jedi's and Clone troopers I hope at least one survives and hangs around for a while.it reminded me of the recent Avengers EMH episode with the Ultrons fighting Kang with the Avengers.
 
Yeah it might be fun to have 3PO command his own set of droids & have him get into a pissing match with R2 about who's the better battle droid strategist—Set them both against Grevious and his droid army and watch the hilarity ensue.
 
They should definitely keep using reprogrammed battle droids. It really opens up a can of worms. And they should definitely keep R2 in charge of them :lol:
 
By far the best part of the second Citadel episode was the conversation between Tarkin and Anakin.

It would have been so much better if Anakin's fall had been slow and subtle as alluded to by that conversation. Instead we got him getting tricked like a dope and following some messed up emotional motive that doesn't make sense.

*Deleted Scene from Revenge of the Sith*

"Yo Palps, can you save me girlfriend?"

"Sure, my young apprentice."

"Wait...didn't you try to kill and depose her on Naboo all those years ago? And since you were behind Count Dooku, who also tried to kill her...maybe I shouldn't trust you."

"These are not the droids you're looking for."

"Stop waving your hand like that at me. I'm going to the Jedi temple and kill me some younglings."
 
What does mind control have do with anything
You haven't seen the Mortis Arc, obviously.

and who cares about a character retconned into existance who has no effect on the prequels?
If you're talking about Ahsoka, then she's part of the continuity and depending on what happens to her in TCW, she'll have a huge implied impact on everything that happens in Anakin's mindset in the future, including ROTS. TCW is a big fat retcon and getting bigger and fatter all the time, but as long as the retcons are better than the canon they replace, I'm perfectly fine with it. And regardless, whatever TCW does as a retcon is the new canon and we all have to adjust (or just not watch TCW, stick fingers in our ears and say la la la I CAN'T HEAR YOU!)

There's no way Anakin could know that Palpatine was lying.
Palps confessing to being a Sith wasn't a big fat honkin' clue that he wasn't trustworthy? :rommie:

As as you pointed out Palpatine didn't outright lie to him.
Which goes to show how dumb ROTS Anakin was - Palps didn't even bother to lie to him. (But what he said strongly implied that he could save Padme - that's a politician's definition of "not a lie.")

Their discussion on using peacekeepers as generals seemed to be more befitting Anakin's general disdain for the Jedi than the whole "waa Padme's dying waaa!" movie plot.
That's far from being the first time they've implied that impatience with the Jedi's restraint in battle was Anakin's true motivation and all that stuff with Padme was...whatever.

But an even bigger factor is him being effectively told and shown in the Mortis Arc that "the Jedi are beneath you." Far from being an arrogant pup who threw a fit and demanded that the Jedi give him power he hadn't earned, now he's looking like someone with admirable restraint and even humility, who is reluctant to believe all that BS about being the Chosen One, even when he directly experiences it.

It's becoming inevitable that eventually he will come to the conclusion that "everything is frakked up and only I can fix this." The threat of Padme dying no longer needs to be part of the story and in fact is just a distraction even if it weren't so idiotic.

Maybe we got the "wrong impression" from ROTS about what was really going on in his mind, because they neglected to show us all the relevant scenes from the real story? :rommie:

I liked part 2, but I don't think a part 3 was really necessary. Starting to feel like a lot of unnecessary running around.
Maybe, but they have lots of time to fill. The core story is pretty simple and doesn't require five seasons to tell - honestly they could have told the whole thing just as well by condensing it into three fast-paced and tightly scripted movies, the PT as it should have been.

Also, who knows what part 3 might bring? This show has a way of doling out important elements with an eyedropper so that it's not always easy to tell what is important at first.

It would have been so much better if Anakin's fall had been slow and subtle as alluded to by that conversation.
They could have done it by doling out the elements over 2 1/2 movies (especially if the first movie starts with Anakin as a teenager - starting with him as a kid just wasted a lot of screen time.)

But it's not just conversations, there are crucial plot elements that needed to be included: the Republic really is corrupt (prove it to us unambiguously); there are Separatists who are motivated by "good" motives and they're not just Sith and greedy capitalists. And the stuff in the Mortis Arc is vital to the story - that's where we understand that Anakin isn't an arrogant, petulant brat but a perfectly reasonable guy who sees that he's the only one with the ability to rescue a totally unravelling situation.

I'd also have done a lot more with the idea (implied by Tarkin) that the military officer caste of the Republic are resentful of having to take orders from a pack of weird warrior monks who give the rank of "general" to children and are known as diplomats and peacekeepers, not ruthless fighters. Tarkin was totally right, I love it! :rommie:

As things go increasingly to hell because the Jedi can't run a war, guys like Tarkin should be thinking about a military coup as the only option to prevent total disaster, and they would certainly line up the support of any Jedi who might be friendly to their ideas.

Tarkin, not Palps, should have been the guy recruiting Anakin, and Anakin should have already been thinking along the same lines. Palps could have been pushing Tarkin, or maybe not. Palps sets things in motion and then sits back and lets them take their natural path.
 
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There's actually an interesting comic series-Darth Vader and the Last Command-that (coincidentally?) touches a bit on the Vader/Tarkin relationship.


It also has Vader encounter visions of what could have been had he let Mace take down Palpatine. He would have named Luke "Jinn!"
 
Tarkin, not Palps, should have been the guy recruiting Anakin, and Anakin should have already been thinking along the same lines. Palps could have been pushing Tarkin, or maybe not. Palps sets things in motion and then sits back and lets them take their natural path.

This. It just fits better. When you go from Episode III to IV Tarkin is a huge anomaly. It's literally "where the fuck did that guy come from and why is he in command of Vader?" Out of all the things the prequels did wrong, the lack of Tarkin was one of the rare things that were wrong purely because they didn't acknowledge him (And that 5 second unspoken glimpse of a dude with freakishly large cheekbones in Ep III doesn't count).
 
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