Maquis: missed opportunity?

[Mage]

I never really expected much friction, honestly.
Starfleet Officers & the Maquis were both still Federation citizens.

Not to the Maquis. Maybe on paper, but they felt betrayed by the Federation, their homes given up to the Cardassians as if it was nothing. I doubt these people would just say 'yeah, let's all be happy people and hold hands'.
Sure they would co-operate, because of survival, something IMO Maquis are better at then Starfleet officers.
I'm not sure how many VOY fans watch DS9 and the birth of the Maquis, since VOY really didn't pay enough attention to the entire Maquis backstory. There is enough bad blood between both parties for them to work together just like that so quickly.

IMO, they really should've spend an episode or two in the beginning of season two dealing with these tensions.

 

[exodus]

Not to the Maquis. Maybe on paper, but they felt betrayed by the Federation, their homes given up to the Cardassians as if it was nothing.

They were given a choice.
They chose to stay.
The Cardassian settlers on the Federation side of the DMZ all moved. It was explained in TNG ep. with the Shelliack that a home is a material thing that can be replaced, your lives can not. Starfleet warned the Maquis(before they were the Maquis) that the Cardassians wouldn't treat them fairly, they ignored it and still stayed.
There was bad blood between the two politically but as we saw on DS9 many of the Maquis & Starfleet Officiers were friends. Cal Hudson & Ben Sisko were still friends to spite their different views politically. They were even told they'd be welcome back into the Federation if they chose to discontinue the fighting to allow peacful negotiation. The Maquis again refused. The Federation did all they could to accommodate the Maquis.

 

[Mage]

Not to the Maquis. Maybe on paper, but they felt betrayed by the Federation, their homes given up to the Cardassians as if it was nothing.

They were given a choice.
They chose to stay.
The Cardassian settlers on the Federation side of the DMZ all moved. It was explained in TNG ep. with the Shelliack that a home is a material thing that can be replaced, your lives can not. Starfleet warned the Maquis(before they were the Maquis) that the Cardassians wouldn't treat them fairly, they ignored it and still stayed.
There was bad blood between the two politically but as we saw on DS9 many of the Maquis & Starfleet Officiers were friends. Cal Hudson & Ben Sisko were still friends to spite their different views politically. They were even told they'd be welcome back into the Federation if they chose to discontinue the fighting to allow peacful negotiation. The Federation did all they could to accommodate the Maquis.

So, if your goverment comes up to you, says you need to GTFO because they plan on giving the ground your home is on to an old enemy, you just smile and say ok?
Right.......

 

[exodus]

Not to the Maquis. Maybe on paper, but they felt betrayed by the Federation, their homes given up to the Cardassians as if it was nothing.

They were given a choice.
They chose to stay.
The Cardassian settlers on the Federation side of the DMZ all moved. It was explained in TNG ep. with the Shelliack that a home is a material thing that can be replaced, your lives can not. Starfleet warned the Maquis(before they were the Maquis) that the Cardassians wouldn't treat them fairly, they ignored it and still stayed.
There was bad blood between the two politically but as we saw on DS9 many of the Maquis & Starfleet Officiers were friends. Cal Hudson & Ben Sisko were still friends to spite their different views politically. They were even told they'd be welcome back into the Federation if they chose to discontinue the fighting to allow peacful negotiation. The Federation did all they could to accommodate the Maquis.

So, if your goverment comes up to you, says you need to GTFO because they plan on giving the ground your home is on to an old enemy, you just smile and say ok?
Right.......

Considering you don't know me, you really can't say you'd know what my choice would be.
If I were told if I stay, the "enemy" would threaten & harm me and my family. Knowing what the Cardassian are capable of, you're damn right I'd move. The safety of me and mine comes first over any material thing.

 

[Mage]

They were given a choice.
They chose to stay.
The Cardassian settlers on the Federation side of the DMZ all moved. It was explained in TNG ep. with the Shelliack that a home is a material thing that can be replaced, your lives can not. Starfleet warned the Maquis(before they were the Maquis) that the Cardassians wouldn't treat them fairly, they ignored it and still stayed.
There was bad blood between the two politically but as we saw on DS9 many of the Maquis & Starfleet Officiers were friends. Cal Hudson & Ben Sisko were still friends to spite their different views politically. They were even told they'd be welcome back into the Federation if they chose to discontinue the fighting to allow peacful negotiation. The Federation did all they could to accommodate the Maquis.

So, if your goverment comes up to you, says you need to GTFO because they plan on giving the ground your home is on to an old enemy, you just smile and say ok?
Right.......

Considering you don't know me, you really can't say you'd know what my choice would be.
If I were told if I stay, the "enemy" would threaten & harm me and my family. Knowing what the Cardassian are capable of, you're damn right I'd move. The safety of me and mine comes first over any material thing.

Each to his own ofcourse, and that would be your choice so be it.
But you're saying the Maquis got a choice. But they didn't. They basicly got a letter on the doormat from the Federation, saying they have to go because TPTB decided that to make friends they gave away your home. Now, to some people that means something. To others it may not, and these people move out. But the Maquis we're FORCED to move out, they never had a choice. If they had a choice, the Federation would've have invited representatives from the colonies to discuss matters and how they felt about it, if they were WILLING to give up their homes. THAT is choice.

 

[exodus]

So, if your goverment comes up to you, says you need to GTFO because they plan on giving the ground your home is on to an old enemy, you just smile and say ok?
Right.......

Considering you don't know me, you really can't say you'd know what my choice would be.
If I were told if I stay, the "enemy" would threaten & harm me and my family. Knowing what the Cardassian are capable of, you're damn right I'd move. The safety of me and mine comes first over any material thing.

Each to his own ofcourse, and that would be your choice so be it.
But you're saying the Maquis got a choice. But they didn't. They basicly got a letter on the doormat from the Federation, saying they have to go because TPTB decided that to make friends they gave away your home. Now, to some people that means something. To others it may not, and these people move out. But the Maquis we're FORCED to move out, they never had a choice. If they had a choice, the Federation would've have invited representatives from the colonies to discuss matters and how they felt about it, if they were WILLING to give up their homes. THAT is choice.

If they were forced out, they still wouldn't be living in the DMZ. If they didn't have a choice, Starfleet would have forcibly relocated them and there'd be no Maquis. They didn't, why? The Maquis chose to stay & the Federation left them there. That's a choice.

 

[Mage]

Considering you don't know me, you really can't say you'd know what my choice would be.
If I were told if I stay, the "enemy" would threaten & harm me and my family. Knowing what the Cardassian are capable of, you're damn right I'd move. The safety of me and mine comes first over any material thing.

Each to his own ofcourse, and that would be your choice so be it.
But you're saying the Maquis got a choice. But they didn't. They basicly got a letter on the doormat from the Federation, saying they have to go because TPTB decided that to make friends they gave away your home. Now, to some people that means something. To others it may not, and these people move out. But the Maquis we're FORCED to move out, they never had a choice. If they had a choice, the Federation would've have invited representatives from the colonies to discuss matters and how they felt about it, if they were WILLING to give up their homes. THAT is choice.

If they were forced out, they still wouldn't be living in the DMZ. If they didn't have a choice, Starfleet would have forcibly relocated them and there'd be no Maquis. They didn't, why? The Maquis chose to stay & the Federation left them there. That's a choice.

They chose to stay afterwards, yes. I agree. They didn't choose to have there homes taken from them. And yes, the Federation did leave them there, they did abonden them. Very noble. I suppose to the Federation a few disgruntled settlers are not worth taking in consideration when trying to make peace. How did Lily Sloan put it in FC: where was your evolved sensebility then? Perhaps something about the needs of the many....

I understand that you feel that leaving your home behind to safe your loved ones is the better choice. When push comes to shove, perhaps I would too. But to some, a home is just as important, and for some of those some (nice play one words) the loved ones would even agree.

But what I really like here, is how people can discuss this to such depths. It means Star Trek did what it was supposed to do: give us something to actually think and talk about instead of just simple entertainment.

 

[Lynx]

You just have to watch "Stargate Universe" and be bored to death with an hour of constant bickering among the crewmembers to give Berman and his people some credit for not letting any Starfleet-Maquis conflict drag on for too long.

 

[Mage]

You just have to watch "Stargate Universe" and be bored to death with an hour of constant bickering among the crewmembers to give Berman and his people some credit for not letting any Starfleet-Maquis conflict drag on for too long.

They never even finished SG1 and Atlantis here in the Netherlands.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Universe lacked a pulse, but the trouble with tension is that if it doesn't eventually explode and redefine the dynamic in the aftermath... That's why Buffy and babylon 5 were good, everything changed. Universe created tension and then everything returned to the same status quo with out any consequences. What's worse? Try and fail like Universe or not trying at all like Voyager?

 

[Mage]

What's worse? Try and fail like Universe or not trying at all like Voyager?

Good question, and I would choose not trying at all then. To much is not good as well, it would feel like the show was only about the conflict between Starfleet crew and Maquis crew.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Did you ever watch Moonlighting?

I got through 3 seasons earlier this year,... last year, and I really must finish it off, the conflict between the two starcrossed lovers who proposed to loath each other 99 percent of the time, but from memory conciliation and armistice between the Cybil and Bruce killed the show.

Seven and Janeway entering that mother daughter respect stage I found sickening. Handing over the 8472 to the Hirogen was interesting but waking up the vadwaar was just just idiotic blundering which she deserved a harsh spanking for.

What about Tom. In the pilot Chakotay said that he would protect Tom from the constant attempts on his life from the maquis... Did he did a really good job at that or did Chuckles just have no idea that his crew were a bunch of panzy ass flipfloppers who traded in their cause for a warm bed and a sonic shower? And the starfleet crew crew accepted him just as well and easily... In the second episode despite being a marked man he was boasting to Kim that he planned to sleep his way through the entire crew in not so many words.

No one considered for a second that Kes was still working for the Kazon. (hey, this shit happens. Slavery lives in the mind.)

No one called Kim a collaborator for working for the Hirogen for a MONTH while the rest of them were being gamed to death.

Then there's Suder.

Even the light bulb was a dick to him until he started killing Kazon for flag and empire.

The Equinox 5?

How many weeks, months or years until they were off punishment duty and regular crewmen again?

The Doctor was feeding tactical information to an enemy ship. his personality should have been wound back to a point when he wasn't a traitor to the fleshies.

They're very discriminate with who they forgive for betraying the Starfleet way of life.

 

[CubColtPacer]

Not to the Maquis. Maybe on paper, but they felt betrayed by the Federation, their homes given up to the Cardassians as if it was nothing.

They were given a choice.
They chose to stay.
The Cardassian settlers on the Federation side of the DMZ all moved. It was explained in TNG ep. with the Shelliack that a home is a material thing that can be replaced, your lives can not. Starfleet warned the Maquis(before they were the Maquis) that the Cardassians wouldn't treat them fairly, they ignored it and still stayed.
There was bad blood between the two politically but as we saw on DS9 many of the Maquis & Starfleet Officiers were friends. Cal Hudson & Ben Sisko were still friends to spite their different views politically. They were even told they'd be welcome back into the Federation if they chose to discontinue the fighting to allow peacful negotiation. The Maquis again refused. The Federation did all they could to accommodate the Maquis.

This bolded isn't true. It's mentioned in the Marquis 2 parter on DS9 that several Cardassian colonies decided to stay as well. You just don't hear about them as much because as Cal Hudson put it the Cardassian settlements would be protected by the Federation but the Cardassians couldn't be trusted to do the same for the Federation settlements.

I would tend to agree that it was illogical to stay and risk your family's welfare when there are lots of planets to choose from. But it's also important to remember that these people have already chosen a harder life by settling on the edge of Federation space in the first place. They changed their entire life to build the colony and so being asked to give that up is very tough because it invalidates what they have been working so hard to accomplish.

 

[Guy Gardener]

No one was protected in the DMZ.

No military allowed.

No empire, no flags.

If the civilians want to kick the shit out of each other, then that's on their own heads.

If the civilians are being armed by an empire, then that's dirty pool and exactly how this all cam to our attention in the wounded.

There's only one reason you found your own world and that so that you can marry your cousins, if my degree in Simpsonsology has taught me anything.

 

[Anwar]

The planets of the DMZ were contested territory even before the settlers settled there, in fact the Feds warned them NOT to settle there but they did anyways. So it was their own fault from the get-go and they knew it.

But yeah, even if they had crew tensions they wouldn't last for more than one season or so. Since they aren't even in the Alpha Quadrant anymore, away from the DMZ and Cardassians the main source of their conflict was gone. So even if they DID have crew tensions it wouldn't make sense to keep it going for very long anyways.

 

[Guy Gardener]

dude

There used to be a thin line in space that required war, and deaths of millions to cross over in bad faith. That's not a matter on contestation, that's just a stupid place to build a house.

]DREADNOUGHT: Probability assessment indicates you are operating within the parameters of the Cardassian - Federation alliance as described in the treaty of 2367. A treaty rejected by the Maquis.

All the lines on the map moved after Riker and Jellico mined that Cardassian invasion Fleet. The DMZ was created in 2367.in response to th need for a larger buffer zone between the two empire considering a warfooting as too often the fist slippers found in ones closet.

The thin line in space turned into a thick stripe.

A lawless place like international waters on Earth today.

Voyager was lost in 2370.

Ensigns of Command was a good story because th colonists had a valid point, which unfortunately required a force of arms the federation was not willing to supply to underwrite. They were a lost colony. And Enterprise dd not have the power to defend them on her own, which would have seen the colony and the ship doomed equally since diplomacy was all but out of the question IT SEEMED.

 

[Gojira]

You seen M*A*S*H*?

The Maquis should have been unpolished, playfully disruptive, distracted and sometimes drunk...

Janeway is Frank Burns.

(She's not Blake. Possibly Hotlips near the end, but she never seemed interested in command. I suppose she could be potter, but by the time potter turned up, Hawkeye was tired and lacking a degree of zest which disposes of the entire rebel/authoritarian dynamic.)

As a huge lover of MASH I like your analogy although I don't think Janeway was Burns. I think she was a good Captain. But the Maquis could have been shown to be more irreverent to Star Fleet without being hostile.

 

[Guy Gardener]

She wasn't Burns the egomaniac on Voyager because she was the hero, but she was Burns the disciplinarian.

If Chuckles was Hawkeye, remember the episode where Frank was left in Charge and hawkeye eventually mounted a coup and sedated him in the ass? It was a court-martial/flashback episode.

A likeable version of Burns, which brings us back to Potter.

Janeway follows the rules, Chakotay burns the rule book. That's who we met in the pilot. Then suddenly he's almost sending his exgirlfriend to the brig for stealing soup... Not that 6 years later in Shattered he isn't stealing wine from the ships stores or betting in a relpicator ration pool about the sex/birthdate of Miral Paris.

Wait, did I just say that Janeway wasn't an egomaniac?

What?

 

[stj]

If you want a serialized show about internal conflict on a spaceship, then Anwar's Romulan idea is the way to go. I think the idea of the Maquis are no more a good idea than pretending that there is some sort of survivalist epic in a ship with replicators. Which is to say, not at all.

As for the Maquis as internal critics of Starfleet humanitarianism, well that depends upon your political convictions. If you are convinced there is an eternal human nature and society is a necessary conflict between nice but effete ideals versus immoral survival, then the Maquis weren't developed. This idea is completely stupid and reactionary, since history shows morality is the key to social cooperation, which is how people survive. But if you've got a burning need to proselytize an ignorant and backward ideology, I'm sure Voyager got on your last nerve.

As a way of having a group of characters who weren't super broken up about not getting back to jail/death in hopeless combat against superior forces, the Maquis worked out very nicely. Kept things from getting too boringly gloomy.

 

[PikeFan]

Would loved an AU with the Maquis taking over....