Dilithium Crystals -- What's the Point?

[Trekker4747]

^^ Sounds good, but let's not forget that dilithium also captures and converts neutrinos into usable energy as well.

Well, sure, that's part of the process.

And the process degrades dilithium causing it to recombine with itself to make the toxic substance called "heavy dilithium", or "trilithium."

 

[Vance]

We've replaced the dilithium crystals usually served aboard the Enterprise with Folger's Instant. Let's see if they notice!

 

[Myasishchev]

Dilithium captures neutrinos, eh? What is it made of, degenerate matter?

 

[TIN_MAN]

^^Heck if I know? I just remember this being discussed either upthread here, or in a related thread. The idea being that this ability would make M/A engines more efficient and how trek sensor tech seems to so easily detect neutrinos which dilithium would explain, which in turn would explain why dilithium is such a saught after rare commodity?

 

[Captain Robert April]

They're magic. Move along.

 

[TIN_MAN]

^^

 

[jayrath]

I prefer the Reeves-Stevens' ideas: dilithium (and rubindium) are part of a second-level periodic table, that allow us to reach into subspace, the same way that common quartz can serve to reach the EM radio spectrum, i.e. crystal radio sets.

From this perspective, dilithium crystals are not merely breakers in the antimatter fuse box. Rather, they allow us -- at tremendous expenditure of energy resources -- to tap into a whole different dimension (literally a subset of space-time), where faster than light travel is possible.

Charge them up, creating a warp bubble, put your ship into it, manipulate the bubble and voila! Einstein is out the window.

Anything else is a bit boring to me.

 

[Vance]

I prefer the Reeves-Stevens' ideas: dilithium (and rubindium) are part of a second-level periodic table, that allow us to reach into subspace, the same way that common quartz can serve to reach the EM radio spectrum, i.e. crystal radio sets.

Sadly, it's complete and utter bullshit. HOW can it be a second periodic table, exactly? Are there 'new' protons and neutrons around? Would this work in concert with people mining the stuff with bare hands and wearing them as jewelry?

Lastly, subspace is not a different dimension. It's simply a compression of space.

 

[TIN_MAN]

While I kinda like the idea that dilithium might exist partially in another dimension, I don't think it really helps us conceptualize things better, In fact it just muddies the water, as it were.

Good sci-fi is about extrapolating from current tech and projecting that into the future while telling a good human (and/or "alien") adventure. This is what TOS excelled at IMHO.

What Reeves-Stevens' did was the same thing Brannon/Braga etc. were famous for, i.e. pulling sh*t outa their arses and making stuff up as they went along!

YMMV of course.

 

[Mytran]

It's never been clearly defined in an episode what subspace is, so it's very open to interpretation (as the rest of this thread shows)

 

[TIN_MAN]

It's never been clearly defined in an episode what subspace is, so it's very open to interpretation (as the rest of this thread shows)

True enough, as far as trek techno-babble goes. But if memory serves, in the real world "subspace" is technically defined as "less than" the four dimensional space-time in which we normally exist, "hyperspace" then, is "more than" these four. The "higher" you go into multiple dimensions, the more "laws" of ordinary "4-D" space-time you can "violate" or circumvent.

 

[Vance]

It's never been clearly defined in an episode what subspace is, so it's very open to interpretation (as the rest of this thread shows)

Actually, it was clearly defined by the writer's guides. It got muddled when certain 'powers that be' decided that their audience was stupid and came up with a bazillion different ways to explain what it was - none of which made any sense, much less scientific sense.

Subspace is simply the area of space that is inside a warp-field. It is distorted, making things which travel within it effectively 'longer' than it would be normally, allowing it to effectively cheat the light barrier. That's it.

 

[Vance]

True enough, as far as trek techno-babble goes. But if memory serves, in the real world "subspace" is technically defined as "less than" the four dimensional space-time in which we normally exist

Actually no. It's just 'space within space'. A 'subset' of space, if you will. The real definition works perfectly with what I mentioned above.

 

[TIN_MAN]

^^Agreed Vance, our two definitions aren't mutualy exclusive, but you expressed it better than I did, and in a way that is more user-friendly for trek tech.

 

[RyanKCR]

My take on dilithium is based partly on a fan written tech book I have. It indicates (and this is from the early movie era) that the dilithium crystals are part of the energizer. In this the energizer takes the raw plasma energy and converts it into other forms of energy, like electricity. The warp engines use the direct raw plasma energy to energize the warp coils but they need a secondary source of energy to manipulate the fields created by the coils. This needs to be from a high energy source and is why the batteries would not be powerful enough to complete the warp field manipulation required for propulsion, but converted plasma energy would work. Plus other systems could be powered by the other forms of converted energy, like phasers and shields.

Anyway that has been my take on it.

 

[Captain Robert April]

It's always good to keep in mind that Star Trek science is only slightly more thought out than the science in, say, a typical Marvel comic book. Dilithium does what it does in the same way that wafer thin boot jets are able to fly a fully armored Tony Stark across the sky at supersonic speeds and getting bitten by a radioactive spider enables you to climb walls and sense danger.

 

[jayrath]

While I kinda like the idea that dilithium might exist partially in another dimension, I don't think it really helps us conceptualize things better, In fact it just muddies the water, as it were.

Good sci-fi is about extrapolating from current tech and projecting that into the future while telling a good human (and/or "alien") adventure. This is what TOS excelled at IMHO.

What Reeves-Stevens' did was the same thing Brannon/Braga etc. were famous for, i.e. pulling sh*t outa their arses and making stuff up as they went along!

YMMV of course.

Well, if you want to get right down to it, and rely on "current tech," faster than light travel as portrayed is impossible. Period. Even if it were half-possible, the time changes would preclude anything like a meaningful dramatic timeline.

So we might as well not debate dilithium.

 

[TIN_MAN]

Well, if you want to get right down to it, and rely on "current tech," faster than light travel as portrayed is impossible. Period. Even if it were half-possible, the time changes would preclude anything like a meaningful dramatic timeline.

So we might as well not debate dilithium.

Well, not really. There are plenty of theories as to how FTL travel could be achieved, in fact, Star Trek's warp drive was/is based on discussions with scientists as to the most plausable way this might be achieved, in the future.

Notice I had said "extrapolate" from current tech, not "rely on it". There is a world of difference. Period.

While it is true that it is currently beyond our tech, there have been advances in our understanding of such things that suggest we are on the right track, and that this is definitely the way to go toward that future goal.

Also there's a difference between "warp drive" (both theoretical and fictional) which circumvents the time changes you refer to, and "relativistc drives" which would cause all the problems for dramatic timelines.

As for debating dilithium or not. While it's true that it started out as a plot device, it's evolved into a much more important "element" in the trekverses, so it's worth discussing and debating IMHO.

If there's one thing we should have learned in this thread, it's that there are several scientifically plausible explanations as to how something like this could really work. While I'm sure "dilithium" will never be used in a real (future) FTL starship, it is not beyond the realm of posibility that some sort of crystal regulating or tuning function may be indeed be employed?

 

[Myasishchev]

^^Heck if I know? I just remember this being discussed either upthread here, or in a related thread. The idea being that this ability would make M/A engines more efficient and how trek sensor tech seems to so easily detect neutrinos which dilithium would explain, which in turn would explain why dilithium is such a saught after rare commodity?

Present-day technology can detect neutrinos. A big block of pressurized, transparent ice would be ideal, but a big aquarium is fine too.

 

[Timo]

...And all you need to make that technology portable and installable in Geordi's VISOR is a medium that's a few thousand times denser than neutronium. Or then "exotic" somehow. Dilithium might fit the latter bill.

Of course, going by the neutronium-detecting technology of today, we can postulate any pairing of exotic matter and exotic radiation-like phenomenon that exists today but goes unnoticed because we never collect enough of the exotic matter in a big tank that would be exposed to enough of the exotic radiation. But put enough dilithium in the path of enough antimatter, and suddenly you find a new law of nature that pertains to the entire universe but only manifests sufficiently in this special case.

Timo Saloniemi