TBBS and treatment of women

[Yeoman Randi]

There is a lack of respect from people in general not just on the issues about female posters and mens attitude toward women. People in general are not respectful...if they disagree with another's opinion they are some how ridiculed and made to look like an idiot...instead of respectfully disagreeing.

This. I made a comment about this just a couple of days ago in some other thread. People ask for opinions and then if someone doesn't agree with the opinion the "offending" poster is ridiculed and ridden. I find it all very tiring.

I agree with Jenee, if you have a problem with the "hot babe" threads, don't go in there. What i cannot escape (and wish i could) are the avatars that are there, in your face, no matter what thread you are in, which feature women with large breasts that are barely covered. Nobody questions whether or not that is acceptable....

Actually, I think that has been questioned, and I totally understand why you might not like that. I don't like them. But where do you draw the line? Okay, no naked breasts. Got it. But our society (I'm assuming we're playing by USA rules on this board, for if we were German based, or Dutch based, it would be quite different) has determined that you can show anything but the nipple. As silly as that is, and when you get right down to it's laughable on several levels, that's today's society. Breasts can be a sexual symbol. So can a slim waistline. A slim waist gets my man thoughts going much more than big boobs do.

What about a strikingly beautiful face? That's the first thing that will get my sexual attention.

I agree with you that it can be offensive. But I also agree with those who are saying that no ever promised you that you'd never be offended. In a pluralistic world, some of my ideas are going to offend you. Some of your ideas are going to offend me.

In the "prayer" thread from last week, some people were offended by MY feelings about prayer. I wasn't trying to tell them right or wrong, or what they had to think, or to change their minds, I just shared what I thought, and that offended some people. Now, I backed off because I wanted to be considerate and understanding, but that's a choice that I made based on who I want to be.

While I would like us all to be courteous, thoughtful and respectful, it's simply not my place to tell anyone else that they should have to be any of those things.

I would like it if people weren't offended by simply being exposed to an idea they disagree with. But the truth is, there are many people of the attitude, "what I believe I believe so strongly that anyone who doesn't believe what I believe is offensive".

I have no problem with people asking for respect and courtesy from others. I have a problem when we start talking about making it a rule that you can't do anything that anyone might ever find offensive.

When we get to that point, what will there be left to post?

Oh believe me, i am not looking for censorship here. And i am certainly not perfect. Put me in a Chris Pine thread and i'm a drooling blithering idiot.

Regarding what's out there all over the board: avatars. What i find offensive about some avatars is that they are the ONLY avatars one (or two) particular posters use. As if that is all there is to a woman. A pair of breasts (and in his avatars, usually overexaggerated breasts). Is there nothing else in this person's life that is of any interest? Is there nothing more to a woman that he finds beautiful other than (usually) large, silicone enhanced breasts? The fact that those are the only avatars he uses indicates (to me) a complete lack of respect for women. It is that disrespect that i find offensive. I'd really like for those posters to examine why they use those avatars.

But again, this is just me, as a woman, talking. Your mileage may vary.

But again, i'd just love to see a general, overall kinder, gentler atmosphere here on the bbs (other than in the TNZ of course). I'd love it if someone could state their opinions without getting crushed by the popular crowd or anyone who disagrees. I'd love to see someone be able to say something without being made to feel idiotic because someone else doesn't think the way they do. Really, it gets exhausting sometimes.

 

[T'Bonz]

You call yourself T'Bonz in real life?

Bon or Bonz IRL. (short O, not long O).

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I should point out that we don't expect mods to read every post in their forum. This is a volunteer position, after all, and reading every post in some forums would be the equivalent of a part-time job.

For that reason, we rely heavily on notifications from users. Notifications are not only helpful in terms of alerting mods, but since every mod on staff sees every notification, it's easy for all moderators to offer their perspective on an issue. It's also easy for Bon to pop in and give a final ruling. If she sees a notification for a post she believes needs a warning, rest assured she lets us know.

 

[An Officer]

We don't have a female mod, nor do I think we need one in here. Males are just as capable as women of handling this type of situation. It's a bit insulting to them to insist that only a woman can handle it.

Fair enough. I would usually agree with you, actually. In fact, a male mod did take this very seriously, and actively did something about it (Spocked), but some of the culprits we're talking about basically organised a witch hunt, until he was forced to retreat. The problem was the mods were not presenting a united front, and they were able to bait and hook a lone mod over a period of time, he's only human. I believe it will take more than one mod to do it.

It's not that the current mods are incapable, far from it, in this case, they just haven't wanted to deal with it. It's easy enough to say I'll deal with it, but actions speak louder than words. It's easy to ignore a problem when it does not directly affect you. That was my only point, not to say that the male population in general can never mod fairly.

 

[Switch]

I grew up in the era of Women's Lib, when women were struggling hard to be seen as the equal of men. They didn't want to be treated as second-class citizens or the weaker sex. The idea that Misc should have divans for maidens to faint upon at hearing off-color comments by uncouth males would have pissed them off, and it pisses me off. The backward politics of this century boggles my mind.

No one's saying we're maidens that can't handle hearing a few words. It's about asking for a bit more respect and consideration in some areas.

I don't know, this whole thread has just made me upset and I'm disappointed in what I've been hearing from a few posters. But I guess I'm just a weak, oversensitive person who doesn't belong on the internet.

For my part, I find most of the language and behaviour folks are referring to in this thread distasteful, and I certainly don't knowingly engage in it myself. For all my flaws, I don't think a tendency to objectify or disrespect or otherwise creep out women is one them. I entirely sympathise with folks' preference for an environment free of the kinds of language and behaviour which are being talked about.

My problem is with the sense of entitlement which some posters seem to have in this regard. We're apparently not talking about a problem poster or two, but rather a consistent pattern of behaviour by many posters throughout the board. And in that case, my question is why should it be the board which has to change rather than those relative few who have a problem with it exercising their own liberty by choosing not to post here?

Obviously there's nothing wrong with bringing one's concerns to the attention of the staff, and the staff can set whatever standards they like for the board, but there are undercurrents of entitlement and imposition here which set my teeth on edge.

 

[Holdfast]

It's also easy for Bon to pop in and give a final ruling. If she sees a notification for a post she believes needs a warning, rest assured she lets us know.

Yeah, she's a typical woman like that.


















I keed, I keed...

 

[TheBrew]

You're not helping.

 

[captcalhoun]

if i have ever offended any women on here, i would like to apologise, right here, right now.

i am not a sexist or a mysoginist. but sometimes i may say things that i think are acceptable and they may not. i try not to, but there you go, like people said: perceptions vary.

and frankly, any posts about me fancying certain members and trying to meet their idealised male preferences are me being rather silly. i know full well no one would be interested in me and therefore, i'm just messing about.

and, yes, i am sometimes uncomfortable with people making sexualised comments about 'hitting it.' i am not andy gray or richard keys. i know it's 2011, not 1911.

 

[Holdfast]

You're not helping.

On a serious note then, the truth of the matter is that there isn't a solution.

Never has been, never will be.

Which is why this thread appears every six months or so. Because the behaviour being discussed is one of degree and context rather than being viewed the same by everyone. One man's wisecrack is another man's creepy suggestion. People - both mods and posters - muddle through as best they can, coming down hard on the most egregious offences when they see them (and there have been such offences in the past). These laundry-airing threads serve the general purpose of resetting the baseline a bit, which is vaguely useful I suppose.

But some people are really touchy about this issue; some are brutally insensitive; some are naturally creepy; and some just like riffing jokes. Mods try their best to steer a steady course, but the board will naturally reflect reality, and reality is that society itself has not been able to come to an concrete agreement about what is right and wrong, which is why the law courts remain a thriving business.

Here, we have Notifications, Infractions, QSF and MA instead.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

if i have ever offended any women on here, i would like to apologise, right here, right now.

i am not a sexist or a mysoginist. but sometimes i may say things that i think are acceptable and they may not. i try not to, but there you go, like people said: perceptions vary.

and frankly, any posts about me fancying certain members and trying to meet their idealised male preferences are me being rather silly. i know full well no one would be interested in me and therefore, i'm just messing about.

and, yes, i am sometimes uncomfortable with people making sexualised comments about 'hitting it.' i am not andy gray or richard keys. i know it's 2011, not 1911.

Just so you know, yes, you do say things that are pretty creepy to some female posters. You come on a bit too strong sometimes. You might be trying to be cute or flirty but it doesn't always come off that way. I know you think you're just kidding but it's not always easy to tell. If there's a good possibility your intentions will get lost in the atonal ether of the Interwebs, it might be wise to think twice about what you're posting.

I don't mean this with any offense, I just wanted to point it out to you. Some of what you said in the "perfect guy/girl" thread exemplifies the kind of behavior you might want to tone down.

I don't want you to get infractions or anything, I'm just trying to give you some friendly advice here. Unsolicited advances on female posters, even given in jest, are probably not a good idea unless you're particularly good friends with them. Otherwise, it's just about impossible to know your real intentions.

 

[Jadzia]

On a serious note then, the truth of the matter is that there isn't a solution.

Never has been, never will be.

But... but... it's star trek... and there's always a solution.. for everything.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

On a serious note then, the truth of the matter is that there isn't a solution.

Never has been, never will be.

But... but... it's star trek... and there's always a solution.. for everything.

I'm pretty sure an inverted tachyon beam will solve everything.

 

[ThankQ]

In the Star Trek universe, seismic volatility can be cured with photon torpedo explosions.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

A gender-based universal translator would have its uses.

 

[Hoser]

But all you'd need to program for the guys would be 'Sex' and 'Bacon'.

Hoser, reverse sexist pig.

 

[ThankQ]

But all you'd need to program for the guys would be 'Sex' and 'Bacon'.

Hoser, reverse sexist pig.

I smell sex and bacon, yeah
who's that lounging in my chair
who's that casting devious pork products in my direction...

 

[Amaris]

But all you'd need to program for the guys would be 'Sex' and 'Bacon'.

Hoser, reverse sexist pig.

Wouldn't that be homosexist instead of reverse sexist?

 

[Holdfast]

In the Star Trek universe, seismic volatility can be cured with photon torpedo explosions.

Is this an argument in favour of phallic penetration?

 

[Thestral]

But all you'd need to program for the guys would be 'Sex' and 'Bacon'.

Hoser, reverse sexist pig.

What no 'Beer'?!

Think of the Germans!

 

[Amaris]

But all you'd need to program for the guys would be 'Sex' and 'Bacon'.

Hoser, reverse sexist pig.

What no 'Beer'?!

Think of the Germans!

The Germans wear funny little hats. That should suffice.