Star Wars:The Clone Wars S3......so far

[Hunter X]

It would take some fancy writing to get the Mortis story to mesh with the "mundane" level plotline. For instance, as already pointed out, the Dark Side can't be ascendant in AOTC because the Daughter wasn't dead yet. At worst, there might be some feeling of disturbance in the Force as the Father weakens.

I'm not saying it does literally mesh with the overall plot line, or that when AOTC happens it's literally at the same time as the Daughter's death. I'm saying that the events on Mortis are a compressed retelling and foretelling of the Star Wars saga, like a stage-play or interactive retelling of the prophecy.

Mortis is not something that will have literal impact on the events of the galaxy. It's a warning and a foreshadowing. I wouldn't be surprised if after the Son is killed next episode (not a spoiler, just a guess) that everything will fade to white and our three heroes will wake up on their shuttle in space with their clone buddies calling them from their cruiser, wondering what's going on, with mere seconds having passed in real time.

 

[Set Harth]

after the Son is killed next episode

See, that didn't take much "fancy writing" at all.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I wouldn't be surprised if after the Son is killed next episode (not a spoiler, just a guess) that everything will fade to white and our three heroes will wake up on their shuttle in space with their clone buddies calling them from their cruiser, wondering what's going on, with mere seconds having passed in real time.

Ugh, reset button time!

That might be too metaphorical for the audience, which remember includes a large proportion of kids. Not that I think kids are dumb - the creators of TCW have enough confidence in their intelligence to throw big words like "anchorite" around - but kids think more literally than adults do.

Having the Son killed will make them think the Dark and Light Sides are both gone, so what the heck are the Jedi and Sith blathering on about? There are no gods left to serve, kiddos. Just do whatever you want in the cosmos.

There's no way to definitively communicate "that was all a metaphor" in a way that will dispel that notion. Even if it happened in some other type of space-time continuum, it will have to be real in order to mesh with the SW style (which isn't intellectual enough for purely metaphorical storylines) and not confuse the audience. They've let the genie out of the bottle and can't put it back now.

Here's what I think will happen: Anakin does fight the Son and something ambiguous happens. The Son is "cast away" or vanishes, perhaps crippled. This gives the story a bit of breathing space - we have 2 1/2 seasons before the Son can return and finish this round of the fight. The implication is that Anakin might be able to defeat him definitively next time around, but of course we know that doesn't happen, at least not for another 25 years or so.

And speaking of 25 years in the future, the true ending of the story can't happen within TCW's timeframe because who the heck takes the Daughter's place? I keep thinking Ahsoka. They can have her be the main character in a post-TCW saga that takes the story maybe five to ten years into the pre-ANH era. Then she goes into suspended animation or some hooey and is resurrected to become the Daughter. That's a nicely mind-bending destiny for her.

I want to see a future episode where the Son reveals himself to Palps. Can you imagine that!?! The big boss is calling! That would be a blast.

 

[Set Harth]

And speaking of 25 years in the future, the true ending of the story can't happen within TCW's timeframe because who the heck takes the Daughter's place?

There's another way to achieve balance in Mortis.

I keep thinking Ahsoka.

I wished for that to happen but I don't think it will.

 

[fett51]

But if they're just Force users, then why does Anakin need to balance them? That would make sense only if the Daughter and Son are embodiments of the Light and Dark Sides, in some sense. At the very least, they are qualitatively different from Jedi or Sith, who have a comparatively limited understanding of, and access to, the Force.

They're still just force users in the sense they're still mortal, fallible beings and not gods or literal embodiments of the force. My idea last week was that in going to Mortis they had drowned themselves in the force to the extent that it altered their bodies and allowed them some degree of control over Mortis, giving them some control over the force as a whole and the Father the ability to regulate the balance. If they all die, problem solved, albeit that the balance becomes more subject to the whims of us mortals.

The Son, not Palps, is the true antagonist of this story.

Unless the Son IS Palps, or is controlling him anyway...nah they'll hit the reset button. Hopefully there will at least be some consequences from Ahsoka's brush with the dark side.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

If they're just Force users, it makes no sense that Anakin or anyone else needs to balance them. Unless they're something like the representatives of the Force on this plane of existence.

The Son is definitely far more powerful than a regular Sith, or otherwise why doesn't Palps just bite Anakin on the wrist the next time they meet (that would be hilarious but not very good storytelling). The Dark Side has never before been depicted on-screen as a total mind-control type of thing. If it were, it would make things laughably easy for the Sith, and remove the drama from the conflict because there would be nothing "wrong" with falling to the Dark Side. It's just bad luck, not your fault.

They'll probably give everyone amnesia next week or some lame BS like that, so that the good guys are even more clueless about what's going on than they are now.

Unless the Son IS Palps, or is controlling him anyway...

The Son is vastly more powerful than Palps, so it would make sense that Palps is a mere puppet of larger forces (and would be wonderfully ironic, since he's an egomaniac and thinks he's in control of everything.)

 

[Set Harth]

The narration for the most recent episode describes them in a less hyperbolic fashion, saying that they are aligned with the respective sides of the Force.

 

[fett51]

If they're just Force users, it makes no sense that Anakin or anyone else needs to balance them. Unless they're something like the representatives of the Force on this plane of existence.

Well, that gets to what Mortis is, per Qui-gon it's a conduit through which the entire force flows. Being there and being LS/DS attuned ubers the Daughter and Son can taint it one way or the other, like dumping pollution in a river. My thought was that having the Son and Daughter able to push the force either way on top of whatever the jedi/sith are up to would enable the Father to keep the force balanced at all times no matter what anyone was doing.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

My thought was that having the Son and Daughter able to push the force either way on top of whatever the jedi/sith are up to would enable the Father to keep the force balanced at all times no matter what anyone was doing.

The Father was there to balance the Son vs the Daughter by making sure neither one got too powerful over the other, killed the other or whatever. If they could be trusted to behave themselves, then nobody would need to babysit. The Son acted the most power-hungry, but theoretically the Daughter could be just as dangerous if she ever figured out how to kill the Son.

I don't remember anyone saying the Jedi or the Sith are particularly important in the overall scheme of things. My impression is that they're gnats compared with the Mortis family. The Father and Son both demonstrated the ability to control lightsabers in ways we've never seen before. The Son could use the Dark Side for total mind control (if Sith could do that, they certainly would have before now). The Daughter brought Ahsoka back from the dead. These people are effectively gods.

The Jedi and Sith, as reflections of the power balance struck on Mortis, would stay more or less in balance as well. Of course, they'd keep fighting each other, and as long as the Son and Daughter were in balance, the Jedi and Sith would find it impossible to get an advantage. Take the Daughter or the Son out of the equation, and the Jedi or Sith respectively would suddenly gain the advantage.

Of course it would manifest itself "naturally" on the mundane level. One way the Son's ascendancy might manifest itself is for Anakin to decide to join the Dark Side. Good "luck" for Palps, except luck has nothing to do with it. I'm sure when it happens, he'll chalk it up to his superior powers of persuasion. And without knowing what's behind it, the audience might scratch their heads and wonder if Anakin is insane or stupid (which oddly enough is exactly what I thought).

People in Star Wars talk about "destiny" as though characters are not fully in control of their lives - there are bigger things they don't understand that have significant control over them. The Mortis family is a glimpse into how destiny works.

 

[fett51]

The Father was there to balance the Son vs the Daughter by making sure neither one got too powerful over the other, killed the other or whatever. If they could be trusted to behave themselves, then nobody would need to babysit.

Oh the kiddies aren't in on that bit - the father said he took his kids to Mortis to get them away from the influence of the Sith and others who wanted to use them. Presumably the Daughter and the Son got their LS/DS tendencies before they went to Mortis. Because Mortis is a force conduit he can keep the whole force in balance by keeping them in balance. I can't imagine he overlooked that when choosing where to take them.

I don't remember anyone saying the Jedi or the Sith are particularly important in the overall scheme of things. My impression is that they're gnats compared with the Mortis family.

We saw the Daughter say the Son was feeding off the Ahsoka/Anakin/Obi-wan fight, so I think it's fair to say it works both ways. And it's not just the force-users themselves, it's the effects of what they do. For example, Palpatine started a fake war that's killing trillions. The force has got to feel that, just like it felt Alderaan blowing up in the OT. Same to a lesser degree with the Jedi. If your average person is the proverbial butterfly flapping its wings, the Jedi and Sith are birds, and the Mortis family are 747s. Individually they are gnats, but collectively they can muck the force enough that the Mortis bunch have to readjust it.

The Father and Son both demonstrated the ability to control lightsabers in ways we've never seen before. The Son could use the Dark Side for total mind control (if Sith could do that, they certainly would have before now). The Daughter brought Ahsoka back from the dead. These people are effectively gods.

The lightsaber stopping could be an uber-version of how Yoda absorbs force lightning (another Jedi actually stopped a lightsaber barehanded in a trailer for TOR last year) and Ahsoka was not dead yet, the Father said the dark side was consuming her, so that was just an uber-force heal. They are extremely powerful, but their mortality, fallibility and need for starships point me to thinking they are more Sha Ka Ree than Q.

I agree with the rest of your post, I just have the mechanics of how the family affects the force differently.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Presumably the Daughter and the Son got their LS/DS tendencies before they went to Mortis.

Yeah, the giveaway was that the Daughter talked like she had no choice but to act selflessly, and the Son to act selfishly - they were helpless to do anything but enact their roles - which is how I got the idea they are humanoid representations of the Light and Dark Sides, or have been transformed so that they are. Presumably even Palps chose the Dark Side of his own free will and could decide to stop being a jerk.

Here's my guess about next week: Anakin fights the Son and defeats him/keeps him trapped on Mortis. He probably won't definitively kill him. My hunch is that the final battle with the Son will be saved for the series finale.

But in the course of the fight, Anakin does something that "dooms" him to the Dark Side. It's something small that he shrugs off at the time, but the Imperial March music will be there to tell us that it's dire.

Ahsoka's fate will of course be the subject of the series finale. She takes the Daughter's place in order to keep the Son eternally in check. That's why she'll never grow up into the adult Ahsoka of her vision - she stays on Mortis and never grows old.

I kinda hope I'm wrong about all this. I'd love to see a post-TCW series with Ahsoka as the main character, running around the galaxy and surviving by her wits, not stuck on Mortis with the thankless task of smacking the Son around.

 

[Set Harth]

I don't remember anyone saying the Jedi or the Sith are particularly important in the overall scheme of things.

According to Lucas and the PT, the Sith are important in the overall scheme of things ( in a negative sense ). If the Jedi aren't important in the overall scheme of things, then Luke's survival in ROTJ is irrelevant, as is Yoda's admonition to "pass on what you have learned". The Son may have the potential to dwarf Palpatine, but if the Son is negated in some way the Sith will still be a threat to balance.

 

[O'Dib]

Interesting line from Anakin: "I'll never turn to the dark side willingly". Had he not added "willingly", his story would seem more tragic, because we would assume he fully believed what he said at that point, and his fall would be a surprise to even himself. But to me, this indicates that already there are circumstances he envisions in which he might decide to turn.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I'm not sure what to make of that line. Is it foreshadowing that what happens to him is like what happened to Ahsoka? Or foreshadowing that he doesn't realize that, yes, there are circumstances under which he'd be willing.

It can't happen like Ahsoka because that lets the air out of the drama for the lead character to be a helpless pawn! At least in the PT, we could envision that Anakin was just a malicious brat and that's the reason he embraced the Dark Side. There's no drama there either, if it was something he was always bound to do willingly, by his nature. (Of course I still can't really tell if that was the intended impression - but other than him being malicious and also very stupid to trust a guy like Palps, there was no observable reason for any of it.)

They've got their work cut out for them if they want to plausibly show Anakin somehow changing his mind about all this stuff, and not using any bullshit crutches to force the story to work: making him a mind-controlled pawn, insane, or stupid. The big missing scene is still the scene where we see him make an intelligent, rational (to him) choice of his own free will. Maybe we'll learn more next week.

 

[Set Harth]

The big missing scene is still the scene where we see him make an intelligent, rational (to him) choice of his own free will.

It's in there.

 

[P0sitr0nic]

The big missing scene is still the scene where we see him make an intelligent, rational (to him) choice of his own free will.

It's in there.

Yeah, he made the choice. He took power to "save" Padme from the bad dreams.

He was fully aware that he had chosen the darkside, and was ok with it because he planned to use it "wisely".

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Well the PT made sense if you assume Anakin is a dunce. And since he acted like a dunce in the PT due to Hayden's zombie-like performance, that did make sense.

Seriously, how stupid would he have to be not to wonder how Padme can die in childbirth in a technologically advanced society that should have highly advanced medical care as well? And how massively stupid would he have to be to think Palps isn't playing him for a fool (which of course he was; Padme DIED anyway, hello!)

It also helped to assume PT Anakin was just an inherently evil person ever since childhood. Regardless of whether he had the sense to see he was being played for a fool, he would have chosen the Dark Side anyway. He jumped at an excuse to do what he wanted to do, anyway. Again, Hayden's creepy-ass performance here helps the absurd story make some sense.

But TCW Anakin isn't being performed with that level of cluelessness, and certainly he doesn't seem to be evil. By changing the character so thoroughly, TCW has now set up a story that doesn't synch with the PT anymore. Therefore, they have to change the PT.

I always loathed the way Anakin had to be mangled into a stupid, evil person to get the PT story to work. So I'm very happy they've rescinded that wretched characterization. But it has created a big fat logic problem for the story as a whole.

 

[DWF]

Well the PT made sense if you assume Anakin is a dunce. And since he acted like a dunce in the PT due to Hayden's zombie-like performance, that did make sense.

Seriously, how stupid would he have to be not to wonder how Padme can die in childbirth in a technologically advanced society that should have highly advanced medical care as well? And how massively stupid would he have to be to think Palps isn't playing him for a fool (which of course he was; Padme DIED anyway, hello!)

Anakin wasn't led to believe she died in childbirth, she was buried with a bulge so the general belief was that she had died before giving birth.

 

[Set Harth]

(which of course he was; Padme DIED anyway, hello!)

With Anakin not present. Having the power to prevent someone from dying isn't particularly helpful if you're not even in the same part of the galaxy. "You can save her" does not mean "Join my organization and she magically becomes immortal regardless of what you do".

But TCW Anakin isn't being performed with that level of cluelessness, and certainly he doesn't seem to be evil.

In TCW he's not supposed to be. You're forgetting the whole turn to the dark side thing again.

It also helped to assume PT Anakin was just an inherently evil person ever since childhood.

Except that's the exact opposite of what was shown by the actual PT and OT films, TPM and ROTJ in particular. Aside from the fact that it throws much of the OT under the bus including Obi-Wan, Luke's arc and the whole concept of turning to the dark side, it also fails to make sense.

 

[Booji]

Question about the last ep...Did anyone else get an Eddie Murphy going after the Ajunty Dagger vibe when Obi-Wan goes into the cave for that sword? I was expeting him to bust out "i..i..i..want the knife. Please."