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First time watching TOS

shayg

Ensign
Newbie
This is an introduction of sorts. I'm glad to have found such an active Star Trek board like this!

As a teenager, I watched TNG off and on during its first run on TV, and enjoyed it quite a bit. I'd seen bits and pieces of TOS, but it always seemed inferior so I never sought it. Recently I came across some recommendations of good TOS episodes, and decided to give it a try, as the local public library had the recent remastered DVD version available.

After spending the last two weeks watching the entire first season, I'm definitely a TOS fan. The stories are interesting, and the picture quality is excellent. At first I didn't even realize that they had redone the ship animation scenes, having never seen the originals. They clearly were careful not to make it too flashy, though in some of the later episodes they put in some lens flare which made it very obviously redone. The DVD includes a feature about their changes, and seeing the original effects I don't even think I would have minded them, so it's too bad they didn't offer a choice of which version to watch, as I've read the BD version does.

The simple sets designs in the ship got me thinking about what was important, and I came to the conclusion that the set is there mainly to communicate those aspects of the story. As long as the panels and buttons make it clear what's happening, they've served their purpose and don't need to be dressed up. Star Trek has always been about human stories, not technology itself (though it might be about the social implications of some technology, of course).

One thing that got a little tiring the most was the song used in the middle of almost every episode, when the plot is in its building danger portion. It has some scales that slowly rise, with a piano that does a few notes periodically. It's a decent song, but hearing it every episode wore it out. I suppose they used other songs every episode as well, but in scenes where there was talking rather than quiet, so that you focused less on the music and thus didn't notice its reuse as much.

Now that I've watched the entire first season, I plan on watching the second and third (was surprised that there were only three). I plan on then watching TAS, as it has an interesting art style, and uses the original actors for voices and the original writers as well. I plan on then watching all the movies in order. I had thought this was made in the mid-1970s, so was quite surprised of its 1966 date. It's amazing how well it holds up over all these years, and how good a transfer of the film there were able to make. I feel like a door has opened and I can finally know what people have been talking about when they refer to elements of Star Trek. I now understand the "Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor not a ______" jokes, for one.

Some random comments:

* I had heard about Shatner's... pausing... style but I could hardly notice it while watching. I guess I approached the show without expectation. I liked his character's calm style of doing the logs, and in general.

* Female officer uniforms are too short. Sexy is fine, but these are gratuitous.

* It was fun seeing the precursor to the Q Continuum in The Squire of Gothos, complete with a mock trial using human laws.

* The background sound in sick bay was neat, just a simple pulsing note. I was trying to figure out the significance of the sound on the bridge. Sometimes it was a continuous whistle that is an iconic sound of Star Trek, but other times it was broken up and spaced out. Did this mean that planets and other things weren't nearby, as if it were a kind of sonar?

Finally, some comments about two episodes:

The Mengerie: I didn't understand why Captain Pike could only give yes/no responses. Even with more primitive technology, it would have been easy to allow him to communicate with words by providing some kind of menu that he accesses with his single flashing light, using something like morse code, where yes is dot and no is dash. This encodes common words as short sequences, and less-common ones (and letters I assume) as longer sequences.

A Taste of Armageddon: At the point where Kirk orders General Order 24 and the Enterprise is threatening to destroy Eminiar VII, I had a different idea of what they were going to do next. In the episode they eventually destroy the computer and force the inhabitants to face the horrors of war, and thus consider peace. I had thought that the Enterprise was going to "destroy" the planet, and perhaps the Vendikar planet as well. At that point, nobody would be dead, since the destruction would be entirely virtual thanks to their score-keeping computers. Then, since both were "destroyed", there would have been no reason for citizens of either planet to step into the disintegration booths, since there would be no score to settle anymore. At that point, the Enterprise could then set terms for peace, and dismantle the computer systems on both planets, as they would be the new ones in power.
 
Welcome to the forum and the universe of TOS, shayg :)

Let us know what you think of the rest of the series when you watch them.
 
The DVD includes a feature about their changes, and seeing the original effects I don't even think I would have minded them, so it's too bad they didn't offer a choice of which version to watch, as I've read the BD version does.
The original version is available on DVD, separately from the remastered version.

* Female officer uniforms are too short. Sexy is fine, but these are gratuitous.
This series did premiere in 1966.

The Mengerie: I didn't understand why Captain Pike could only give yes/no responses.
Because of the demands of the story, but if you want a fanwank, I guess I can give it a shot.

Even with more primitive technology, it would have been easy to allow him to communicate with words by providing some kind of menu that he accesses with his single flashing light, using something like morse code, where yes is dot and no is dash. This encodes common words as short sequences, and less-common ones (and letters I assume) as longer sequences.
You seem to be making some assumptions about how this works, and may want to rethink those assumptions.

I think you’re assuming that Pike can simply choose “activate this signal” or “activate that signal” and that any meaning attached to the signals such as yes/no, on/off, left/right, or 0/1, is ascribed entirely by convention. Give up that assumption and the problem goes away. Maybe the indicators pick up complicated patterns in brain activity resulting from Pike thinking about the concepts of affirmation or negation and cannot easily be repurposed to other concepts.

A Taste of Armageddon: At the point where Kirk orders General Order 24 and the Enterprise is threatening to destroy Eminiar VII, I had a different idea of what they were going to do next. In the episode they eventually destroy the computer and force the inhabitants to face the horrors of war, and thus consider peace. I had thought that the Enterprise was going to "destroy" the planet, and perhaps the Vendikar planet as well. At that point, nobody would be dead, since the destruction would be entirely virtual thanks to their score-keeping computers. Then, since both were "destroyed", there would have been no reason for citizens of either planet to step into the disintegration booths, since there would be no score to settle anymore.

I like your thinking. :bolian:
 
The production values that you saw in the first 13 or so episodes are no longer maintained in season 2. Still, season 2 has a lot of great episodes and you are going to love it, I suspect.

Hopefully you can someday see it all with the original effects. The original model of the Enterprise (which was of course built by hand) looks great. The remastered Enterprise looks a bit cartoonish to say the least, but it got better in remastered season 3.
 
* I had heard about Shatner's... pausing... style but I could hardly notice it while watching. I guess I approached the show without expectation. I liked his character's calm style of doing the logs, and in general.

The Mengerie: I didn't understand why Captain Pike could only give yes/no responses. Even with more primitive technology, it would have been easy to allow him to communicate with words by providing some kind of menu that he accesses with his single flashing light, using something like morse code, where yes is dot and no is dash. This encodes common words as short sequences, and less-common ones (and letters I assume) as longer sequences.

Shatner's acting has been overly criticized. You don't really appreciate it until you compare it to his decendants. His style drove the action and helped to give TOS the energy, excitement and drama that it had over all the rest.

I agree with your reservations about Pike's communications. Steven Hawking has better stuff even now (yes I realize the differences). But this was written probably in 1965 and since then, the field of communication has exploded. At the time it was written, it probably seemed almost too far fetched. It is essential to the plot though, so just enjoy it. It is a great storyline.
 
captrek said:
The original version is available on DVD, separately from the remastered version.
I noticed this when looking for the second season at the library. I'm considering which one to watch; I suppose I could just get both and decide then. I got the idea though that the remaster also involved lots of cleaning up of the film, not just remakes of the ship shots (I don't have a Blu-Ray player, unfortunately, so I can't get the cleaned up film with the original ship shots).
maryh said:
I agree with your reservations about Pike's communications. Steven Hawking has better stuff even now (yes I realize the differences). But this was written probably in 1965 and since then, the field of communication has exploded. At the time it was written, it probably seemed almost too far fetched. It is essential to the plot though, so just enjoy it. It is a great storyline.
Exactly. I can understand why they chose a simple yes/no response, and respect it. It puts Pike in a very isolated place, avoids us being able to ask him detailed questions, and makes living in the Talosian's illusions a clear choice in the end. It also makes for dramatic answers from him, particularly because after the first flash, you can't immediately be sure that it's a yes until a little time has passed. I'm not sure why I even criticized this aspect in the first place.
captrek said:
Maybe the indicators pick up complicated patterns in brain activity resulting from Pike thinking about the concepts of affirmation or negation and cannot easily be repurposed to other concepts.
I see. In this scenario, he'd have difficulty constantly thinking "affirmative" or "negative" in quick arbitrary sequences.
 
Exactly. I can understand why they chose a simple yes/no response, and respect it. It puts Pike in a very isolated place, avoids us being able to ask him detailed questions, and makes living in the Talosian's illusions a clear choice in the end.

And best of all, it helped create the illusion that the actor sitting in the wheelchair was Jeffrey Hunter! :rommie:
 
Welcome Aboard Shayg!

Glad to see you enjoy the original series just like the rest of us. The group is right, production values will begin to slide in Season Two and even more so in Season Three. But there are still gems in both.

After you finish the series, don't forget to watch the TOS movies. Start with "Khan" and keep on going until "The Undiscovered Country". Save the best for last: "The Motion Picture". And while you're at it, also read some of the novelizations.
 
I'd hardly say "The Motion Picture" was the best of the films, but whether you like it or not, if you're going to watch it (and I see no reason why you shouldn't) it makes a lot more sense to watch it in order, at least to me.
 
I’m with Harvey. Watch them in order.

Also, I strongly recommend the Director’s Edition of TMP. If you’re a BluRay afficionado it may be tempting to go with the Theatrical Edition since it’s the only version available on BD, but the DE is enough of an improvement that it’s worth suffering the little drop-off in image quality.

(Note that TMP:DE is a particularly unusual case of a director’s cut. It isn’t an after-the-fact alternate version, or even a difference of opinion between the director and studio. It’s what the movie was always supposed to be. Unfortunate circumstances forced TMP into the theaters before they were done working on it. The Theatrical Edition is a draft. I don’t mean like George Lucas’ “The original versions of Eps IV-VI were just rough drafts” bullshit; this is for real.)
 
(Note that TMP:DE is a particularly unusual case of a director’s cut. It isn’t an after-the-fact alternate version, or even a difference of opinion between the director and studio. It’s what the movie was always supposed to be. Unfortunate circumstances forced TMP into the theaters before they were done working on it. The Theatrical Edition is a draft. I don’t mean like George Lucas’ “The original versions of Eps IV-VI were just rough drafts” bullshit; this is for real.)
Sadly, there's a pretty solid case to be made that the DE isn't what Wise wanted back in 79/80, as it doesn't jive with interviews here gave back then, and there's too much fanwank in it to believe it's "original intent".
 
Since going back and reshooting scenes with the actors that didn't quite work was an impossibility, this is as close as he was gonna get to what he originally wanted, so in my book, it's close enough. Besides, I seem to recall Wise being rather quiet on the subject of TMP, since it was the first film in his career where he never got to do his final cut (the "Director's Edition" was basically his exercising this clause in his original contract, enabling him to finally finish the film).

Think of it this way: The time between the releases of the theatrical version of TMP and the Director's Edition would constitute the longest sneak preview in motion picture history.

As an example of how faithful the CGI guys were to maintaining the look of the original film, the way the bridge between the Enterprise and V'ger forms, with the little sparkly lights swarming in, is EXACTLY the sort of visual effects Robert Abel & Associates were known for (like in the 7Up and Levi's commercials they were best known for prior to getting the nod for TMP), and quite probably what they were expected to turn in.
 
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(Note that TMP:DE is a particularly unusual case of a director’s cut. It isn’t an after-the-fact alternate version, or even a difference of opinion between the director and studio. It’s what the movie was always supposed to be. Unfortunate circumstances forced TMP into the theaters before they were done working on it. The Theatrical Edition is a draft. I don’t mean like George Lucas’ “The original versions of Eps IV-VI were just rough drafts” bullshit; this is for real.)
Sadly, there's a pretty solid case to be made that the DE isn't what Wise wanted back in 79/80, as it doesn't jive with interviews here gave back then, and there's too much fanwank in it to believe it's "original intent".
Can you elaborate?
 
I hope you enjoy your trek through TOS,shayg!! I found your insight on a possible twist in this story very thought-provoking!! Feel free to share more of them while you continue to watch the rest!:)

A Taste of Armageddon: At the point where Kirk orders General Order 24 and the Enterprise is threatening to destroy Eminiar VII, I had a different idea of what they were going to do next. In the episode they eventually destroy the computer and force the inhabitants to face the horrors of war, and thus consider peace. I had thought that the Enterprise was going to "destroy" the planet, and perhaps the Vendikar planet as well. At that point, nobody would be dead, since the destruction would be entirely virtual thanks to their score-keeping computers. Then, since both were "destroyed", there would have been no reason for citizens of either planet to step into the disintegration booths, since there would be no score to settle anymore. At that point, the Enterprise could then set terms for peace, and dismantle the computer systems on both planets, as they would be the new ones in power.

If the computers were allowed to run their course and annihilate both planets in "computer reality" before Kirk destroys them outright, did Kirk still break the Prime Directive?

Kirk obeyed the "letter" of the law (Prime Directive) and let the society's computer war fulfill its programming. Once the computer "war" was over, no need for the real people to continue unless they chose to. Anan-7 sounded like he really wanted to stop the war and accepted Ambassador Fox's offer to help negotiate.

One could argue that Kirk still broke the "spirit" of the law by nudging them in that direction by destroying their computer after the "war" was over. If Starfleet sent Fox to open up relations with them in the first place, I find it hard to believe that Starfleet was interested in maintain the status quo of the planet. It was capable of space travel to another planet in their solar system by colonizing Vendikarr. Was it another planet beingd disputed with the Klingon Empire, like Organia, that Starfleet wanted on their side? The coincidental appearance of "Klingon" disruptors on Eminiar makes one wonder if the Klingons had already been there at one point?
 
Its my first time watching TOS and im enjoying it so far....I just love the whole 60s ambience even though its based like 100 years after Enterprise.
 
I'm so jealous of you guys seeing TOS for the first time!

Happy viewing, Lt_Rowy, you're watching the original and the best :techman:

Will be interested to hear what you think, having seen Enterprise first.
 
. . . If Starfleet sent Fox to open up relations with them in the first place, I find it hard to believe that Starfleet was interested in maintain the status quo of the planet. It was capable of space travel to another planet in their solar system by colonizing Vendikarr. Was it another planet being disputed with the Klingon Empire, like Organia, that Starfleet wanted on their side? The coincidental appearance of “Klingon” disruptors on Eminiar makes one wonder if the Klingons had already been there at one point?
In RL, the disruptor pistols were originally designed and built for “A Taste of Armageddon,” then greeblied up to become Klingon weapons in “Errand of Mercy.” So the Klingons could actually have “borrowed” the design from the Eminians.
 
Shayg,

Thank you.
Like someone else already said, this restores my faith. I'm so happy that you're enjoying the original series so much. What I wouldn't give to watch these episodes without knowing what was comming next.

I envy you.:)

Keep on Trekkin'!
John
 
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