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Gene's original pitch to the network.

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. . . And something Modern Trek failed to realize: "This time is 'somewhere in the future'...happily eliminating the need to encumber our stories with tiresome scientific explanation." (p. 3, Star Trek Proposal, First Draft. March 1964)
Indeed, one of Roddenberry's points was that the dialogue should never get bogged down in technobabble. He wrote something to the effect of, "When Sgt. Joe Friday picks up his .38 revolver, does he explain how it works?" Unfortunately, Trek TNG and its successors pretty much trashed that premise.
 
Indeed, one of Roddenberry's points was that the dialogue should never get bogged down in technobabble. He wrote something to the effect of, "When Sgt. Joe Friday picks up his .38 revolver, does he explain how it works?" Unfortunately, Trek TNG and its successors pretty much trashed that premise.

Exactly. It got worse with each season, too.
 
Indeed, one of Roddenberry's points was that the dialogue should never get bogged down in technobabble. He wrote something to the effect of, "When Sgt. Joe Friday picks up his .38 revolver, does he explain how it works?" Unfortunately, Trek TNG and its successors pretty much trashed that premise.

Exactly. It got worse with each season, too.
Fans love details. Even nonsense technobabble. The writers gave in to their baser fannish insticts when they went overboard with that stuff.
 
And lost much of their non-fan audience in the process. It's great to add details for the fans to appreciate. It's terrible when that interferes with the entertainment and story telling required to hold a general audience.
 
Indeed, one of Roddenberry's points was that the dialogue should never get bogged down in technobabble. He wrote something to the effect of, "When Sgt. Joe Friday picks up his .38 revolver, does he explain how it works?" Unfortunately, Trek TNG and its successors pretty much trashed that premise.

Exactly. It got worse with each season, too.
Fans love details. Even nonsense technobabble. The writers gave in to their baser fannish insticts when they went overboard with that stuff.
I've known a few posters to say they like technobabble, but most folks I've spoken to dislike it in varying degrees. And I don't know of anyone who ever asked for it before TNG started doing it.
 
Exactly. It got worse with each season, too.
Fans love details. Even nonsense technobabble. The writers gave in to their baser fannish insticts when they went overboard with that stuff.
I've known a few posters to say they like technobabble, but most folks I've spoken to dislike it in varying degrees. And I don't know of anyone who ever asked for it before TNG started doing it.
Depends on what tech is being babbled about. Fans have filled books and hard drives with speculation on the hows and whys of the tech seen in Trek. Some have real world science behind them. Some don't. Between TOS and TMP an entire cottage industry based on Trek Tech Spec popped up. Some of those behind these publications went on to work for TNG. Some went on to produce "offical" tech manuals once Paramount and Roddenberry figured there was a buck to be made. Others went on their merry way creating a "personal technology".
 
I think maybe what happened with TNG is this: When they brought on Sternbach & Okuda as tech advisors, those guys went to great lengths figuring out the science and technology of the Trek universe -- as background. As the kind of research that's meant to lay a foundation for the story without actually ending up on the page or screen. But over time, once they had that detailed background resource available, the writers started drawing on it more and more and letting it influence their approach.
 
Depends on what tech is being babbled about. Fans have filled books and hard drives with speculation on the hows and whys of the tech seen in Trek. Some have real world science behind them. Some don't. Between TOS and TMP an entire cottage industry based on Trek Tech Spec popped up. Some of those behind these publications went on to work for TNG. Some went on to produce "offical" tech manuals once Paramount and Roddenberry figured there was a buck to be made. Others went on their merry way creating a "personal technology".

True, but it doesn't make for good television.
 
It does help to head off pointless debates down the line though.

You don't see anyone debating the location of Engineering on the Enterprise-D, do you?
 
^^^The problem on TNG etc. wasn't that the writers started using Sternbach and Okuda's tech notes, it's that they got in the habit of writing "tech tech tech" in the script as a "fill in a techy justification", so technobabble had to be invented to explain what happened, even if it was illogical.
 
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^Regardless of sexism, it's simply not the way professional military personnel on the bridge of a ship would behave. That's the point of the criticism in the writer's guide. Roddenberry's goal was to make a science fiction show that treated its characters as naturalistically and realistically as any "real-world" drama, rather than making them cartoony caricatures. So it was important to him that they behave the same way that real people in an analogous situation would behave.

I think they painted themselves into a corner and laid the attraction between the two on with a trowel almost from the start. The scene in Balance of Terror is much more subtle than in Miri or the Naked Time for example. We know they were aware of their feelings for each other and we know that they were conflicted about them. It adds an additional dimension to the Enemy Within too.

If I recall correctly it was almost a subconscious thing in BoT - their concentration was on their impending doom, not each other. It WAS unprofessional but it was a particular kind of unprofessional which fitted their character dynamic. Overall I liked the scene but I agree, neither Kirk nor any other crewmen should be comforting other crewmen while on duty... erm transporter scene in NuTrek anybody as evidence of the same sexist attitudes 40 years later? Nuff said.
 
... erm transporter scene in NuTrek anybody as evidence of the same sexist attitudes 40 years later? Nuff said.

What??????????? Sure, it was unprofessional, but sexist? What possible justification is there for that? Spock wasn't comforting Uhura because she was a "weak woman" or something. She was comforting him because he'd just lost his mother and his planet. Throughout the film, Uhura was portrayed as the aggressor in their relationship, the source of emotional strength and wisdom from whom Spock drew support in his time of need. It is a profound, bizarre non sequitur to read sexism into that.
 
^^^The problem on TNG etc. wasn't that the writers started using Sternbach and Okuda's tech notes, it's that they got in the habit of writing "tech tech tech" in the script as a "fill in a techy justification", so technobabble had to be invented to explain what happened, even if it wasn't illogical.

And I think that without it being defined at that point, it wasn't as evident as to how "saturated" it would become. Perhaps they even became numb to it... was so familiar, it felt strange to thin it out. Personally I felt that at times it added a feeling of credibility, but more often than not it became too much. It started to feel like intentional filler.
 
... erm transporter scene in NuTrek anybody as evidence of the same sexist attitudes 40 years later? Nuff said.

What??????????? Sure, it was unprofessional, but sexist? What possible justification is there for that? Spock wasn't comforting Uhura because she was a "weak woman" or something. She was comforting him because he'd just lost his mother and his planet. Throughout the film, Uhura was portrayed as the aggressor in their relationship, the source of emotional strength and wisdom from whom Spock drew support in his time of need. It is a profound, bizarre non sequitur to read sexism into that.

Oh I dunno - sexist that a woman can't do her job without getting bogged down by problems at home? :p She'll be bringing him his plomek soup next.
 
Oh I dunno - sexist that a woman can't do her job without getting bogged down by problems at home? :p She'll be bringing him his plomek soup next.

Again, what the hell are you talking about? There was nothing in the movie to suggest that Uhura's feelings for Spock impeded her ability to do her job in any way. Why are you assuming that Uhura would be the one compromised rather than Spock? Why don't you think, say, Kirk Prime was rendered unable to do his job when he made out with Marlena or Odona or whoever? The only sexist double standard I see here is the one you're applying.
 
Back to the original topic, if I may:

It reminds me what a versatile concept Star Trek was/is. Dodge City in flight.

2. All the specs on the ship seem a bit fanboyish, and the character sketches too. With the names and cute descriptions, it all sounds like something someone (ok, me) woulda written in a notebook in sixth grade. But then GR and others went ahead and actually wrote and produced something. Kudos to them.
 
Sorry, I'm being facetious - that's why I used the little rude smileys - lol. I know that humour is a difficult concept but please don't take any of my comments too seriously. It helps if you post drunk.

The point that is valid is that it's a modern example of male/female senior/junior officers behaving inappropriately so I suppose the modern writers aren't much better today at keeping it professional than they were then. I'm British so Malcom Reed's style and the TMP style of greater professionalism feels more natural to me while the crew are on duty. I don't mind them straying a bit but they can go too far.

There is some evidence that her relationship affected her job though. She blackmailed the superior officer who was well within his rights to post her to a different ship even if temporarily (other ships need talented comms officers), she left her post to meet him in the tubolift, and while they edited out the part that gave her a valid reason to be in the transporter room, they wasted quite a few minutes on that goodbye kiss during a crisis when timing was critical. It would have annoyed me less if they had engaged in a brief, subtle bit of finger rubbing but I think the writers felt that might confuse some members of the audience for whom the concept of telepathic intimacy or any kind of subtlety is a foreign concept. They wanted to ram it home that Kirk knows about their realtionship so subtlely went out the window.

Having said that, overlooking the fact that Uhura left her post, the earlier scene in the turbolift was handled much better because, similar to the BoT scene, they were just people struggling to reconcile their emotions while on duty during a very traumatic event. Apart from the kissing, she didn't need to be his lover in that earlier scene - played differently it could have been Kirk or McCoy from a TOS episode making sure that he was ok both for emotional support and for professional reasons. The later scene just felt a lot more self-indulgent and unnecessarily over the top. Imagine Rand doing that to Kirk every time he beamed down to a planet!

"Mmmmm - look at my legs, baby. I'll have some hot coffee waiting in your quarters when you get back, and some food cubes, you know, just the way you like them..." ;)

On topic: It is remarkable that they managed to produce some cracking sci fi in those early episodes from those rather cheesy sketches. I think later on the cheese started to take over a bit more though.
 
There is some evidence that her relationship affected her job though. She blackmailed the superior officer who was well within his rights to post her to a different ship even if temporarily (other ships need talented comms officers)...

Actually that was an example of Spock's feelings compromising his performance of his job. Uhura was supposed to go to the Enterprise, but Spock decided to send her to a different ship to avoid the appearance of favoritism. He was the one who let their relationship get in the way. She was entirely professional and focused on the job (i.e. her determination to earn a post on the flagship, which she did fair and square, and she was furious that he tried to deny her that for personal reasons).
 
Actually that was an example of Spock's feelings compromising his performance of his job. Uhura was supposed to go to the Enterprise, but Spock decided to send her to a different ship to avoid the appearance of favoritism. He was the one who let their relationship get in the way. She was entirely professional and focused on the job (i.e. her determination to earn a post on the flagship, which she did fair and square, and she was furious that he tried to deny her that for personal reasons).
I can not believe that this isn't more self evident to people. It was obvious in the movie, yet some how people (like Pauln6) turn this on Uhura.

Uhura was right, Spock was wrong.
 
. . . All the specs on the ship seem a bit fanboyish, and the character sketches too. With the names and cute descriptions, it all sounds like something someone (ok, me) woulda written in a notebook in sixth grade.
Or something that an American TV network executive in the 1960s would understand. Pretty much the same thing, actually.
 
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