some Star Trek III: TSFS Plot Contrivances
- Thread starter sonak
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Never once do we hear that Starfleet has rejected access to Genesis, it's the Federation council...
Morrow has a superior he reports to, the Federation Council evidently.
Another fairly significant plot hole - why would a senior military official sponsoring a scientific project have technical knowledge of it, beyond the absolute basics.
Even if we assume Kirk was a genius (as in the new film) it still would not explain why Kruge thinks he should have the information.
TSFS really is weak in this respect. It shares with very many weak movies (including most of the Trek films) the fundamental problem of needing a few more re-writes before they started filming it.
Still, its a much better film than the ultimate "we have no script, fuck it who needs a script" monstrosity that is the two Pirates sequels.
Said official would have access; that alone might make the capture worth the while. Trek has already established at that point that any starship can access Federation secrets, as long as somebody gives credentials and clearance to the terminal. Many a villain has found utility in kidnapping our heroes for this purpose, and justly so; most recently, Nero tortured Pike for important codes (some of which might change when Starfleet learns of the kidnapping, but not all).
However, this is not really a plot problem no matter how one looks at it, because Kruge didn't set out to kidnap Kirk. He saw the tape and went to Genesis to kidnap some scientists there, after which things went south (his gunner ruined his plan) but Kirk turned up in compensation. And in ample compensation, really; if the military overseer of Genesis was there with a starship, he probably had plenty of Genesis secrets aboard that starship, too, possibly even more than had been aboard the Grissom.
"Give! Me! Genesis!" wasn't a rational request, it was an expression of frustration at the culmination of a long, failed campaign to get Genesis. But the two times before that, during the fisticuffs, might still be rational demands for Kirk to provide access to Federation secrets by giving viewing clearance. They don't need to be rational, though.
Timo Saloniemi
Problem is, not much Kruge does is rational or makes sense. Although we all have fun rationalising rather silly elements in Trek ultimately TSFS is a weakly plotted film, and Kruge is a pretty silly villain. It is never really explained why Kruge thinks he can find secrets by going to Genesis AT ALL. Again, you can rationalise it by saying it was probable scientists would be there, and probable they would have information he wanted, but it is not explained in the film.
Kruge actually ALMOST has more depth to him, with a couple of re-writes he would easily change into a pretty cool opponent, as is implied with his references to an "ultimate weapon", the Klingons justifiably pissed off over the Feds developing what could easily be used as a weapon of planetary destruction would make very interesting opponents.
I don't see it that way. The Vulcans choose to be very private and secretive about personal matters such as sex and spirituality, so it's no surprise that non-Vulcans would only have a vague sense of "mysticism." Even if humanity has the willingness to understand these aspects of Vulcan culture, understanding requires information, and the Vulcans are loath to supply it.
btw, always wondered how Spock hid pon farr from Pike, and/or why Pike didn't bother to give his successor a note like "Your first officer becomes a sex-crazed lunatic every 7 years, next time in 2267".
"I didn't tell you... But I still have to kill you."
In "Amok Time", Spock does pretty explicitly say that he's never had pon farr before - essentially, he had hoped his mixed heritage made him freak enough that he'd never contract that particular "disease"...
Okay, perhaps he got mild symptoms like the occasional bout of rage, but managed to hide their true significance. We have no evidence he would have been stuck with Pike on a deep space starship for all those eleven joint service years of theirs; perhaps Pike gave him leave more easily than Kirk did when he asked?
Timo Saloniemi
I wouldn't call what the OP listed as plot contrivances. They might be plot points he/she doesn't necessarily buy, but they aren't contrived.
Not to say ST:III doesn't have a MAJOR plot contrivance - Proto-matter. How convenient this was never brought up in ST:II. And low and behold it just so happens to be the reason Spock is resurrected and aged to the appropriate moment to be finally rescued.
Not to say ST:III doesn't have a MAJOR plot contrivance - Proto-matter. How convenient this was never brought up in ST:II. And low and behold it just so happens to be the reason Spock is resurrected and aged to the appropriate moment to be finally rescued.
Umm, what? The reason Spock is resurrected is the Genesis effect, which was established as probably being capable of this in ST2 already - lines in the final scene were written for the very purpose of preparing for a sequel in which Spock would arise again thanks to Genesis.
Protomatter is what nearly ruined this. According to Saavik, it's responsible for those parts of Genesis that don't meet the expectations of the Marcuses. Bringing Spock back to life was one of the expectations in ST2; the planet splitting into rapidly changing zones was not.
We don't know how or if Genesis would have resurrected Spock without protomatter, but Kirk's best understanding of it (without knowledge of protomatter, but with access to the knowledge of his old flame and their son) was that this would have happened some way or another. Plants on the planet supposedly grew at an accelerated rate (and were apparently observed as having done so by our heroes before they departed to retrieve the marooned Reliant crew), so why not resurrected people?
Timo Saloniemi
Protomatter is what nearly ruined this. According to Saavik, it's responsible for those parts of Genesis that don't meet the expectations of the Marcuses. Bringing Spock back to life was one of the expectations in ST2; the planet splitting into rapidly changing zones was not.
We don't know how or if Genesis would have resurrected Spock without protomatter, but Kirk's best understanding of it (without knowledge of protomatter, but with access to the knowledge of his old flame and their son) was that this would have happened some way or another. Plants on the planet supposedly grew at an accelerated rate (and were apparently observed as having done so by our heroes before they departed to retrieve the marooned Reliant crew), so why not resurrected people?
Timo Saloniemi
I thought Genesis turning out to be a failure was the most disappointing aspect of the movie. After all the potential that was talked about and argued over in TWOK, it seems like a bit of a cop-out. I suspect that, as with the klingons being able to fire while cloaked in Trek VI, the writers felt that it would give the federation too big of an advantage if a device like Genesis were readily available.
Even with that said, I think Trek III is the best of the odd numbered films. It tells a good story about the beloved TOS characters, unlike TMP which devoted more time to newcomers than it did to our heroes. It also has the most ambiguous ending of any Trek movie.
Even with that said, I think Trek III is the best of the odd numbered films. It tells a good story about the beloved TOS characters, unlike TMP which devoted more time to newcomers than it did to our heroes. It also has the most ambiguous ending of any Trek movie.
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