Beforeprise and Afterprise?

[goofy]

I'd like to see a fic or series following-up on Earth events following the NX-01's return to Earth, the NX-01's expansion/refit with a secondary hull, and the newer ships heading out into the Coalition and the possibilities of 2011 F/X over 1960's production values.

See what's happened to key cities / locations along the Pacific Coast immediately following the Hermosa Quake and humanity's jittery social situation now that aliens are able to openly walk among them in the afternoon sun.

Realistic firebombings of hotels, embassies, etc. by those few hardliners that want Earth for Humans only. Alien rites of passage, inevitable fear, misunderstandings, and how that might play out in 2158-era facebook/internet social network, adult job competition, competition for rebuilt urban/rural housing, and high school incidents.

 

[Shazam!]

provide the grittiness needed to make that work.

As if Star Trek should be gritty.

 

[ToMaHaKeR]

the NX-01's expansion/refit with a secondary hull

goofy, here you go: http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/starfleet-vessel-enterprise-nx-01-sheet-16.jpg

 

[Tarek71]

The social and cultural aspect would certainly be an interesting setting. Its somewhat unsatisfying to have a big jump over a time period with a handwave like "and during that time humanity became united, learned to live in harmony and everyone lives to better themselves and not for any greed, or hysterical fanatcism....tada!"...and then jump ahead to later centuries without any intervening sense of how all that happened or could have happened.

Earth of 2063 to 2151 is just a blur. And then another blur from 2161 to the 2250's. So theres no doubt that there should be alot to explore there. I think the earlier of the two would be better for darker storylines, at least in terms of life on Earth, especially going back through the apparently violent and turbulent late 21st century. But there would be alot to tell on either side of the Enterprise era.

 

[Tarek71]

Same here. This is what they needed:

DS9 writers X serious effort to do Birth of the Federation, not Random Starfleet-Related Events of the 22nd C.

Damn! What a missed opportunity. I'm still mad.

Agreed on all that.

I'd rather have this, too, because I know it has the best chance of commercial success, riding on the coattails of the Paramount movies success. And above all, Star Trek on TV needs to survive in the ratings. BOTF or (my actual first choice) post-Dominion War won't cut it in terms of series survival.

Look at the near total absence of any TV series even resembling space opera on TV. The format is dead. For Star Trek to revive it, it'll need all the help it can get.

I could buy this if I thought non-Trek fans even know the difference between the timelines. Trek fans wont refuse to watch trek because its not in the movies continuity and I dont think non-fans know what the difference is or care.

I think the idea is that you could have crossover appearances? Ok, but if people are tuning in to see Zoe Saldana make a guest appearance, then they want to see Zoe Saldana. Would it matter if she were Uhura and Vulcan was blown up vs. Uhura and Vulcan hasnt been blown up? Or playing some other character for that matter?

Maybe there could be a crossover story, but whats the likelihood of that? And the TV show has to make dozens of episodes in between movies, so how many stories could really tie in anyway.

I dont know. I see the logic of it but it doesnt seem all compelling to me. I doubt any show, even if set in the continuity will be based on the same Enterprise and the same actors. Unless it is, then I dont see any really compelling need for it to be in that continuity. Although a movie could be a great vehicle for a semi-backdoor pilot (or at least an introduction) if its say, another ship and it appears in one of the movies.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I could buy this if I thought non-Trek fans even know the difference between the timelines. Trek fans wont refuse to watch trek because its not in the movies continuity and I dont think non-fans know what the difference is or care.

The timeline difference that the general audience notices will only be in big, obvious things, like whether Vulcan exists. But if Vulcan does suddenly exist, the general audience will be confused. So to stop the confusion, Vulcan will still be blown up, therefore the timeline will be the Abrams timeline by definition.

Smaller things might be handled other ways, and only fans will notice, but then the implication will be that we're in some third universe, not that we're in the original.

It's possible the writers could avoid mentioning Vulcan at all, but that would be absurd, especially if the show goes on for years. And the lack of mention of Vulcan could be taken as an indication that it no longer exists and everyone avoids talking about it. Ditto if no Vulcan characters appear. Is that because they're so rare and they're all on New Vulcan, breeding new generations rather than foolishly risking their necks out in space?

I'd also expect at least a few movie-actor cameos in the TV show, to bump ratings. And again, that will be the Trek XI movie actors. If Zoe Saldana shows up, we might not know what universe we're in, but we're definitely not in the original universe.

The main things are: don't confuse the general audience, and use Abrams' movies' success to lure more of the general audience. Both those needs preclude the series being set in the original TOS universe.

 

[Tarek71]

The timeline difference that the general audience notices will only be in big, obvious things, like whether Vulcan exists. But if Vulcan does suddenly exist, the general audience will be confused. So to stop the confusion, Vulcan will still be blown up, therefore the timeline will be the Abrams timeline by definition.

Thats where I think I dont follow. The target audience is

1. Trek/Scifi/Fantasy fans

2. People who arent Trek/SciFi/Fantasy fans and did not see the 2009 movie and,

3. Non trek/Scifi/Fantasy fans who did see the 2009 movie.

That last group, assuming they remember the details all that well, wouldnt really be confused by any change. Audiences never are. And they are the only ones who even could be.


Im not arguing for the original series continuity. If anything, I think thats gone for good. But like Arthurian Saga or Batman or Superman/Smallville, recastings and retellings work just fine with audiences and inconsistencies between versions are not fatal as they are understood easily by the audience to be different versions of the same characters.

And this wouldnt necessarily be the same characters. It could be set in any century or continuity with any number of known or new characters.

The show will have to stand on its own, whatever the continuity. Yes, there can be occasional cameos, and some of them might help the ratings somewhat here or there. I certainly think thats a factor in favor of a show set in the JJverse and set in the same time period as the movie. But as I said, I dont think thats going to be a significant factor for the show. It will make it or not on its own merits. It will have to.

I could easily see even a Harry Potter or Star Wars live action TV spinoff show bombing famously no matter how colossal the movie success was. Indeed even a cameo from Rupert Grint himself might not save it.

The main things are: don't confuse the general audience, and use Abrams' movies' success to lure more of the general audience. Both those needs preclude the series being set in the original TOS universe.

As I said, I dont think they will be confused. Its details that Trek/SciFi and Fantasy fans know but would ignore and non-fans will either not remember because they didnt even see the 2009 movie, or saw it but forgot and what they half remember they wont care all that much about. They wont be wedded to it. "Oh, in this one, Clark and Lex knew each other in their youth. They didnt meet as adults!" No biggie. Everyone was ok with that. Its a different version. The superman movies are free to ignore it if they like.

Unless its actually being made by JJ I dont think it will be set in the JJverse. In fact even if JJ did make it might not be made in the JJ verse. No one should assume hed even want to make a TV version of bascially the same thing hes doing with the movies.

 

[T'Girl]

The main things are: don't confuse the general audience, and use Abrams' movies' success to lure more of the general audience. Both those needs preclude the series being set in the original TOS universe.

As I said, I dont think they will be confused.

Just this. New comers to the Star trek universe wouldn't know the difference, and regular fans wouldn't mind if the new series was set in the original universe instead of the JJ alternate reality. The last movie will still be the hook that bring audience in.

Actual the best time to have construct a new series would have been months prior to Star Trek Elevens premiere, with the new series starting the following fall ... ahhh missed chances.

I'd like to see a fic or series following-up on Earth events following the NX-01's return to Earth, the NX-01's expansion/refit with a secondary hull, and the newer ships heading out into the Coalition and the possibilities of 2011 F/X over 1960's production values.

Gee, why stop with just a secondary hull?

.I don't think you could carry a new series based upon a redesign of the NX class.

 

[Scinlao]

and yet at the same time it's still Star Trek.

Uhmm, yeah sure .. if you kind of squint really hard and sort of tilt your head to one side

Funny...I don't have to do any of that, and I can see it just fine. Perhaps you need glasses?

Not to bring up an old argument, but I completely agree with T'girl. Star Trek is not about fancy little christmas ornaments all over the screen blinding you. It's about mankind and how technology has advanced. I never watched canon Star Trek and thought, Oh, look at the pretty little lens flare! The Enterprise pales in comparison to that little thing there. I'd rather watch a documentary on how they made that lens flare there than watch the Enterprise to see how Captain Picard fixes that diplomatic situation between the Cardassians and the Bajorans. Screw that.

As for the glasses thing, no. It is still Star Trek, but they changed it to much. Lens flares, outrageously extravagant starships, and such. All I'm saying...

 

[ColeMercury]

So the "Beforeprise" idea would be to "Enterprise" as the series "Caprica" was to "Battlestar Galactica", then? Well, there's precedent, so the idea is feasible at least. Thing is, if you're going to make a planet-based prequel to a space-based TV show work, then you've got to have some damn good storytelling -- you can't get away with as much as you could through "look at the pretty space vista".

A show set in the aftermath of "First Contact" could actually be brilliant if they really put some effort into it. Set it fifteen or twenty years after (say if this hypothetical "Beforeprise" show were made anywhere between now and five years from now, the gap between movie and series could be equal to real time). At that point in the future history, the Vulcans have helped rebuild civilisation in several key places (such as San Francisco, perhaps?), so there's a certain optimism in the air, but there are still lawless areas and regressive civilisations like those seen in "Encounter at Farpoint". To add to the conflict between humans and Vulcans there might be the beginnings of the stagnation which the characters complain about in "Enterprise", but not so much that it'd overpower the series and make it boring -- I'm guessing that'd only really kick in once the no-war-no-disease utopia has been built on Earth (which was supposed to come fifty years after First Contact, so about thirty years after this hypothetical "Beforeprise" series). So, yeah, it could be pretty cool. James Cromwell and/or Alfre Woodard making cameos would be a bonus.

As for the "Afterprise" idea... I'm not so sure. It would've been awesome to see the Earth-Romulan War (on TV or film or both) but I think that ship's sailed now, with Enterprise's cancellation (I mean, it makes no sense for them to be absent). And then, after the Federation is founded... what happens? A whole lot of nothing, really. Tarek71 is right in saying that Earth's history in Trek is a big blur from 2063 to 2151 and from 2161 to 2250, but more stuff seems to happen in that first big blur than the second -- to extend the metaphor, there's more to see if you bring it into sharp focus.

By the way, Enterprise didn't depict the Earth-Romulan War because it was set before the war was supposed to start. And they did foreshadow it in the fourth season, with the arc involving the Romulan drone ship and the Aenar. They probably would've built up to it properly and at least shown the war's beginning if there'd been a fifth season.

At any rate, neither the "Beforeprise" or "Afterprise" ideas are too likely to happen anyway. If there is a sixth TV series, I find it much more likely that they'll follow on from the Abramsverse movies than being set in the "prime" timeline. (Yes, technically any series set before 2233 would be in both the prime timeline and the Abramsverse, but you know what I mean.)

Oh, and by the way -- this is my first post here. Well, it's certainly... long...

 

[goofy]

T'Girl: What's with the NX Era U.S.S. Murder?

 

[Trekker4747]

T'Girl: What's with the NX Era U.S.S. Murder?

The U.S.S. Pagestretcher or the U.S.S. Gangbanger?

 

[Red Ranger]

I like the idea of series taking place directly after First Contact

I always liked the idea of Humanity exploding out into the galaxy immediately following Cochrane discovery of the warp drive. Series Enterprise depicting Humans basically sitting on their collective hands for a century I found ridiculous. Never have bought into the whole "the Vulcan held us back" thing spurted endlessly by Archer, if they won't help, by-pass them and move on out.

That did seem uncharacteristic of both humans and Vulcans as we knew both races through their depictions throughout all the previous series.

 

[ChristopherPike]

or the U.S.S. Gangbanger?

Definitely late night television by the time it reaches Britain then!


Sad thing is, in all this talk of a pre or post ENT series... there's still loads of potential in between, that Season 4 had only just begun to tap into.

Okay... So we'd have to figure out a way to erase "These are the Voyages..." from history first. But I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

 

[ChristopherPike]

Another idea would to have based a Star Trek show around colonists, lead by a central character like Zefram Cochrane.

Recast the part again and show him part of non-Starfleet bunch off to explore and live in the Alpha Centuri system.

A different perspective and attitude than a show about Starfleet as "the Navy in space". Terrans and Vulcans can still appear from time to time, bringing as much character conflict as the planet's native population.

 

[Maxillius]

Late 25th century Federation re-exploration. A disaster befalls the Federation in the form of a Red Matter explosion that takes place in 2387. Scientific research leads to a hypothesis relating a reaction with red matter and federation weapon signatures leading to the complete destruction of subspace in a 900-light-year sphere around a single massive black-hole-like wormhole. 125 years later, subspace begins to heal enough for warp travel to begin again. A Cardassian ship is tasked with making contact with their former enemies when it is found faster than light travel is once again possible in the former Federation.

 

[JarodRussell]

Ringship Enterprise in the Romulan War, that's what I want to see. With nuclear warheads and no viewscreen communication between Terrans and Romulans.

 

[williamsto]

I would love to see a series in the TMP time frame, because I feel that was not explored enough, or after the the last Prime trek movie. Alot of stuff in the new star trek movie was to much off base from the Trek I grew up with, or simply didn't make sense. For example Cadet Kirk bypasses everyone to become instantly Captain, don't think so.

 

[el Chalupacabra]

Hello All. I am new to this site, but I am a long time fan of Star Trek.

I guess you can say I am one of the few who thought Enterprise was a good show, and IMHO, it got a lot more right than wrong. I say that after just getting off watching the entire Enterprise series on DVD over the last week and a half or so. Even to this day, I feel that the show was cut way too short, and had so much more potential had it been allowed another season or 3.

Anyway, as to a new trek series idea, I think ideally, i would like to see Enterprise return to the small screen. Returning as a regular show is unrealistic at best, but if it were a mini-series, it could work/ I think the one thing most trek fans lament about Enterprise was that it did not depict the Earth Romulan War. A week long mini series about the Earth Romulan war, featuring the Enterprise NX01 crew would be not only a great way to give that series a proper send off (I felt that These are the Voyages was such a poor choice as a finale, and personally consider Terra Prime the "real" finale), but also a great way to bring Trek back to TV.

If that mini series did well, it could open the door for other mini-series to fill in the gaps in between series ENT and TOS or TOS movies and TNG. Just think of it... we could see the mirror universe again, the events of the early 23 century a la Captain April (it wouldn't even need to be the enterprise), or the events of the early 24th century that lead to the Romulans' isolation prior to TNG (think Enterprise B), or even a young Jean Luc Picard on the Stargazer.