For those of you who dislike or hate Season 7, in your opinion, what do you think would have made the season better for you to enjoy? No Ezri Dax? Less Pah-Wraiths?
Improving Season 7
- Thread starter Joe Washington
- Start date
I rather liked seven 7. I think it could have been improved with tweaking, but I'm not immediately certain what could have been done that would necessarily improve things overall.
I do with TPTB had had the cojones to make the next Dax host a guy, but I can't blame them for not going in that direction.
I do with TPTB had had the cojones to make the next Dax host a guy, but I can't blame them for not going in that direction.
I didn't hate it, but it could have been so much better... yes, less lame pah-wraiths, no Ezri Dax (she was a complete dimbo), a less cartoony Dukat.... and a return to the previous policy of "shades of grey" instead of "self-righteous good guys vs. moustache-twirling tah evulz".
I actually like season 7 but there are things I would change. I would have dropped Ezri as she appeared in season 7. I'd keep the next Dax a woman (the name doesn't matter, Ezri would be fine) but I'd have her come on for one or two episodes only. She'd be completely sure of her new identity and I'd make her not particularly interested in continuing on with her close relationships with Sisko and have little interest in Worf and have the episodes partly deal with the closure of the Sisko-Dax relationship and have a bit of a torture Worf over his struggle not to see this new Dax as the old Dax. However, in the end she moves on with her life and so does the rest of the crew.
Next I'd move the end of the war forward between two to four episodes from the end. Have an episode or two dealing with some post war stuff and in the final episode I'd have Bajor joining the Federation. Dukat would still come long to try and woo Winn to the Fire side, him and Sisko would have their show down and both would end up with their respective benefactors. I'd also make sure that Jake has a scene with his father in the final episode after Sisko joins the Prophets, as would Kasidy.
The other change I'd make would be to either make sure no used battle footage was used in the final battle of DS9 or at the very least took out the "Sacrifice of Angels" reused sections as they stand out far too much and don't really gel with the new footage they created or the rest of the used footage.
I'd also be tempted to kill someone with the end of the war. It would have probably have been Worf, but TPTB would no doubt never allow it.
Next I'd move the end of the war forward between two to four episodes from the end. Have an episode or two dealing with some post war stuff and in the final episode I'd have Bajor joining the Federation. Dukat would still come long to try and woo Winn to the Fire side, him and Sisko would have their show down and both would end up with their respective benefactors. I'd also make sure that Jake has a scene with his father in the final episode after Sisko joins the Prophets, as would Kasidy.
The other change I'd make would be to either make sure no used battle footage was used in the final battle of DS9 or at the very least took out the "Sacrifice of Angels" reused sections as they stand out far too much and don't really gel with the new footage they created or the rest of the used footage.
I'd also be tempted to kill someone with the end of the war. It would have probably have been Worf, but TPTB would no doubt never allow it.
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Definitely I'd make sure there is no Ezri - she is completely useless and irrelevant character who serves no legitimate purpose on the show whatsoever.
I would either eliminate the Pah-Wraith nonsense completely, or I would make sure they were implemented as interesting characters in the first place. I.e. they have just as legitimate of a claim to the wormhole as the so-called 'prophets' do, and the Pah-Wraiths are not any more evil than the so-called 'prophets' are. Either both types of aliens would be evil, or neither, or they would both have some evil tendencies along with some good tendencies.
I'd eliminate all the useless filler episodes, namely every Ezri-centric episode, Chrysalis, Badda Bing Badda Bang, and The Emperor's New Cloak. Although Take Me Out to the Holosuite can be considered a filler episode, I'd keep it simply because it is a great episode with a strong meaning.
Other than that, the arc connection would be amped up even stronger, not just in the first few episodes then last 10 episodes.
Also, the Federation would either lose the war. Or, the Fed would win only because of Defective Weyoun Clone surviving and giving the Sisko intel that lets him win - credit goes to Jeffrey Combs for presenting that idea to the showrunners, which they should have accepted.
I would either eliminate the Pah-Wraith nonsense completely, or I would make sure they were implemented as interesting characters in the first place. I.e. they have just as legitimate of a claim to the wormhole as the so-called 'prophets' do, and the Pah-Wraiths are not any more evil than the so-called 'prophets' are. Either both types of aliens would be evil, or neither, or they would both have some evil tendencies along with some good tendencies.
I'd eliminate all the useless filler episodes, namely every Ezri-centric episode, Chrysalis, Badda Bing Badda Bang, and The Emperor's New Cloak. Although Take Me Out to the Holosuite can be considered a filler episode, I'd keep it simply because it is a great episode with a strong meaning.
Other than that, the arc connection would be amped up even stronger, not just in the first few episodes then last 10 episodes.
Also, the Federation would either lose the war. Or, the Fed would win only because of Defective Weyoun Clone surviving and giving the Sisko intel that lets him win - credit goes to Jeffrey Combs for presenting that idea to the showrunners, which they should have accepted.
I wouldn't eliminate all filler episodes. Badda Bing Badda Bang is pretty cool.
I Am The One Who Resists The Tug Of Popular Sentiment:
Keep Ezri as is (she was NOT a "dimbo", whatever the heck that's supposed to mean--she was a beautiful, intelligent, warm-hearted character with a complexity that put Jadzia to shame)--including all the episodes centered around her.
Expand the storyline into eight seasons, so as to tie up the loose ends in an even more satisfying manner. Have "The Changing Face..." as the S7 cliffhanger (with more "filler" eps in that season--perhaps a Jake-and-Nog episode, a Sisko episode, an O'Brien episode, etc.), and expand the "final chapter" arc so it doesn't seem as "rushed". (I'd say pair up Ezri and Julian, say, early in S8, and show us some nice, sweet moments of them together, a la Odo/Kira.)
I could go on...but I already had an entire thread on this. In short, the exact opposite of what most of the previous posters have said. Keep the war until the finale--we needed to end the show with a "bang".
Keep Ezri as is (she was NOT a "dimbo", whatever the heck that's supposed to mean--she was a beautiful, intelligent, warm-hearted character with a complexity that put Jadzia to shame)--including all the episodes centered around her.
Expand the storyline into eight seasons, so as to tie up the loose ends in an even more satisfying manner. Have "The Changing Face..." as the S7 cliffhanger (with more "filler" eps in that season--perhaps a Jake-and-Nog episode, a Sisko episode, an O'Brien episode, etc.), and expand the "final chapter" arc so it doesn't seem as "rushed". (I'd say pair up Ezri and Julian, say, early in S8, and show us some nice, sweet moments of them together, a la Odo/Kira.)
I could go on...but I already had an entire thread on this. In short, the exact opposite of what most of the previous posters have said. Keep the war until the finale--we needed to end the show with a "bang".
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I certainly wouldn't remove Ezri, though I would reduce the number of episodes that feature her by one in favor of either an O'Brien-focused episode or a Jake-centric episode.
Jake in particular needed a stronger character arc in the final season, a bit more like Nog's excellent arc, something to make it clear that he is no longer a child once WYLB rolls around and his father has to leave.
The Pagh Wraith storyline would need a rewrite to reach its full potential.
Extreme Measures should have been an awesome follow-up to Inter Arma. Get rid of the silliness of entering Sloan's brain.
I would have a similar list of possible adjustments in mind for any Trek or DS9 season, of course. Season 7 is a great season overall, though, one of Trek's best in terms of overall quality. It's up there with 5 and 2 as DS9's best seasons imo, though I do think 5 probably wins the prize overall.
Jake in particular needed a stronger character arc in the final season, a bit more like Nog's excellent arc, something to make it clear that he is no longer a child once WYLB rolls around and his father has to leave.
The Pagh Wraith storyline would need a rewrite to reach its full potential.
Extreme Measures should have been an awesome follow-up to Inter Arma. Get rid of the silliness of entering Sloan's brain.
I would have a similar list of possible adjustments in mind for any Trek or DS9 season, of course. Season 7 is a great season overall, though, one of Trek's best in terms of overall quality. It's up there with 5 and 2 as DS9's best seasons imo, though I do think 5 probably wins the prize overall.
I agree with pretty much all of this (except I don't rate Season 2 quite as highly).
The lack of good material for O'Brien was one of my main complaints with that season. He got some great episodes earlier in the show, but somehow he seemed to get rather sidelined towards the end, which is a shame since Colm Meaney is such a good actor.
I also think the season would have been better with fewer holodeck episodes - I'd keep It's Only a Paper Moon, but the other two would get the chop.
Oh, and no Ezri-Worf-Julian love triangle. That dragged on forever and was never interesting.
I'd say get rid of the filler in general, but I suspect that's easier said than done.
I agree with much of your post, though my appreciation of some of what I might have originally considered "filler" in season 7 has evolved over time. For example, I didn't originally like Badda Bing at all, but now I actually see how it fits into the scheme of things.
One of the interesting aspects of late DS9 (basically from FBtS onward) is the frequent breaking down of suspension of disbelief and elimination of the "fourth wall." Vic is as big a part of that as Benny Russell, which is one of the reasons I've come to enjoy Vic a lot more over time. Badda Bing feels like fluff, and to a great extent it is, but it also picks up on some of the same questions as FBtS. (What is the relationship between fiction and reality? To what extent can fictional characters be considered real?, etc.)
I guess so, but I think that sometimes it worked really well (Far Beyond the Stars, It's Only a Paper Moon) and other times not so well. I felt that a certain spark was lacking in Badda Bing and I think it sort of pales beside Paper Moon. I might have liked it a bit better if it had been the last episode before the Final Chapter, as I think was the original idea.
Too much Vic Fontaine.
For the Sisko-Dukat-paghwraiths plotline to work would have required backtracking to mid-S5 with "Rapture." When Sisko starts down the path where being the Emissary of an alien religion takes precedence over being a Starfleet officer, then Starfleet should have put its foot down and required him to choose.
Sisko advised the Bajorans to be neutral in the war, which at the very least meant putting Bajor's interests before the Federation's. The Prophets could have been Dominion allies for all anyone knew. Starfleet shouldn't have sat still for Sisko's contention that they were genuine spiritual figures if not gods, and not just another group angling for more power.
Sisko needed to be at odds with Starfleet so that the spiritual storyline would be truly is own personal quest, as he sheds all former aspects of his identity and becomes a different person. Having a Star Trek hero give up Starfleet as part of his personal journey would have been radical and different - perfect for DS9!
A lot of the plotline could have stayed the same. If Starfleet is calling Sisko on the carpet during mid to late S5, the whole process would be upended by the Dominion taking the station, after which Starfleet would need its experienced officers in action. Everything would be put on hold until the emergency is over, in S6, by which time Starfleet might need to turn a blind eye to Sisko because he's so crucial to their relations with the Bajorans. But Starfleet should not be happy with this, and there should be ongoing tension.
Dukat's story should also be changed - he's not insane, but he sees the rift between Starfleet and Sisko as something he can exploit. He allies himself with the pagh-wraith, not as a follower but as someone who thinks he can make use of them to wheedle his way back into power. This of course eventually destroys him, but didn't we always know his hubris would be the end of him? That's a much more fitting end for Dukat than insanity/blindly following false gods.
And the ending of the series should also change - the Feds should lose the war. Then the next series starts immediately, with a few surviving DS9 characters plus new ones, as the remnants of Starfleet attempt to battle their new Dominion overlords.
Sisko advised the Bajorans to be neutral in the war, which at the very least meant putting Bajor's interests before the Federation's. The Prophets could have been Dominion allies for all anyone knew. Starfleet shouldn't have sat still for Sisko's contention that they were genuine spiritual figures if not gods, and not just another group angling for more power.
Sisko needed to be at odds with Starfleet so that the spiritual storyline would be truly is own personal quest, as he sheds all former aspects of his identity and becomes a different person. Having a Star Trek hero give up Starfleet as part of his personal journey would have been radical and different - perfect for DS9!
A lot of the plotline could have stayed the same. If Starfleet is calling Sisko on the carpet during mid to late S5, the whole process would be upended by the Dominion taking the station, after which Starfleet would need its experienced officers in action. Everything would be put on hold until the emergency is over, in S6, by which time Starfleet might need to turn a blind eye to Sisko because he's so crucial to their relations with the Bajorans. But Starfleet should not be happy with this, and there should be ongoing tension.
Dukat's story should also be changed - he's not insane, but he sees the rift between Starfleet and Sisko as something he can exploit. He allies himself with the pagh-wraith, not as a follower but as someone who thinks he can make use of them to wheedle his way back into power. This of course eventually destroys him, but didn't we always know his hubris would be the end of him? That's a much more fitting end for Dukat than insanity/blindly following false gods.
And the ending of the series should also change - the Feds should lose the war. Then the next series starts immediately, with a few surviving DS9 characters plus new ones, as the remnants of Starfleet attempt to battle their new Dominion overlords.
My biggest beef with season 7 really is season 6. The main things that bother me in 7 is the rush ending and the Ezri overtime. Dax should have died in Change of Heart and the Ezri character introduced right after so that the basics about the character are covered before season 7 letting them all of season 7 for ending the story well.
That would also have avoided the Dukat killing Dax a la Star Wars' Emperor.
That would also have avoided the Dukat killing Dax a la Star Wars' Emperor.
How do you know she wasn't one, if you don't know what it means? Huh? Huh?
Busted!
^ 
Well played. But keep Dax as she is.
Yeah, they needed a female character for what would otherwise be an even more male-dominated cast.
Well played. But keep Dax as she is. Yeah, they needed a female character for what would otherwise be an even more male-dominated cast.
Seriously, I kind of think Ezri is pretty useless, but she doesn't bother me all that much.
I love that bit where Garak dresses her down and makes her cry. That's one of my all-time favourites.
I love that bit where Garak dresses her down and makes her cry. That's one of my all-time favourites.
How do you know she wasn't one, if you don't know what it means? Huh? Huh?
Busted!
I estimate, with the assistance of the following points:
1) As one with a decidedly firm grasp of the construction of the English language, I deduced that "dimbo" appears to be a combonation of "dim" (as in, dim-witted) and "bimbo".
2) The context you put the term in--a decidedly unflattering context, which is the typical context in which you seem to place Ezri.
Case in point:
Which is why I fail to understand this claim:
Frankly...such unflattering terminology as you have previously designated seems quite personal--therefore, the evidence leans toward...her existence bothering you.
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