For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good* POTC

[Gaith]

Oh, yeah, I just went there. Pourquoi? Read on...


The Story

COTBP has a pretty ridiculous story. A bunch of dangerous pirates desperately want to shed their immortality... and the script has our heroes spending the whole movie trying to avert that catastrophe. Huh? It also get pretty convoluted in the last third, as this or that person becomes temporarily invincible or not... and then the ending, where the uptight British officer just lets the heroes go, is about as dumb as it gets.

DMC has a far better story: it's coherent, each character's actions make sense, and it builds to a single, rousing climax. More on this later.

I'd slag on AWE's story here, but really, what would be the point?


Characters

DMC gets massive character-work points by declining to ask Orlando Bloom to do anything but look vaguely daring, unlike the other two movies, in which he plays a significant role. Also, undead Barbossa is a pretty lame villain: so he stole Jack's captaincy... and? Both are pirates!

Now, Davy Jones, there's a bad mother- who gets off on being evil and collecting souls. He's also a marvelous CG work. But AWE sidelines him and tries to make him sympathetic (hello? Torturer... soul-stealer... bad guy... huh?), with the main villain being Beckett, who's great as a B-plot slimeball, but does or says nothing interesting in AWE.

Most of all, though, DMC has the most Jack, and this is the only movie where the main protagonist (being Jack himself, unlike the other two) has a significant character arc. (And no, Will deciding to be a pirate in COTBP for little other reason than the ability to bone Keira Knightley isn't a strong arc, as he started off wanting that.) DMC turns Jack from a purely selfish and cowardly POS into someone who recognizes the evil he's done and is prepared to risk his life to right it. As for AWE... I didn't see any significant character movement for anyone at all, beyond maybe Jack's decision to seek immortality - which happens offscreen.

Winner: DMC.


Caribbean Cinematography/Action

AWE only has one final scene set in the Caribbean, so screw that movie. And even COTBP defenders must surely admit that its limited budget shows in cramped exterior work and other general limitations, whereas DMC is filled with spectacular outdoor locations, much more interesting weather, eye-popping action that doesn't involve a quasi-dance sequence in which Knightley is thrown straight up at the camera like a circus performer... and for those who charge that the DMC action is ridiculous, well, so is Jack, so it all fits.

Now, I've been to the Caribbean and other tropical places, and DMC is the only Pirates yet that really reminded me of what it felt like to be there.


Music

DMC wins again; it improves upon the first movie's theme by making it loopier and subtler. The AWE music, OTOH, no doubt reflecting the lack of Caribbean/Jack action, was a wash.


Keira

She's hotter as a tomboy in man clothes than in a dress she doesn't fill out. (Sorry, girl, that milkshake date offer's still good anytime, but it's true.) And in DMC, she gets more screen time than Bloom and flirts with Jack. Win-win-win.


Subplots/side gags

Each of the movies has them, but DMC's are, to my mind, the funniest and most interesting. And, you get those two or three shots of the clock being raised that looks exactly like the Hill Valley clock, so big points there.


Jack

Did I mention DMC has the most?


What about On Stranger Tides?

Well, it's not out yet, and IF it gives Jack the main focus as well as good character work, it might give DMC a run for its money. But by ditiching Bloom, being set in the Caribbean and not having COTBP's plot, it's already ahead of the first and third films.



Truth has been served. You may all start agreeing now.

 

[Mr Light]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

Dead Man's Chest is my favorite movie of the trilogy but I love all three (At World's End a little less so). DMC really set up a great mythology and while the cannibal island sequence has nothing to do with the plot it's my absolute favorite sequence in the entire trilogy It's got a great cliffhanger with the shocking return of an old favorite too. Davey Jones was awesome, the Kraken was bad ass, that fight on the wheel at the end was amazing... What's not to love?

 

[Nowhere Man]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

On the Iron man thread I had to agree, but this time no. I'm sorry Pete didn't get any better, but I don't think me agreeing with you will save him. I think all three are good,but I like POTC: COTBP(that was a mouthfull) the most.

 

[Starkers]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

There was a time when I really liked the second one, whilst bloated I thought it set up a lot for a third film...then the third film came along and it was obvious they didn't have a clue (I think Knightly's said they were literally getting pages of script on the day of filming cos they were still writing the blessed thing)

For me the first one is the only one I like, and I think it comes down to one major point...pirates aren't good guys! This is something the first film is very clear about- and even though Pryce, Davenport and the rest of the British aren't portrayed as neccesarily the good guys, they're clearly the better guys, whilst in the third especially pirates are played like some kind of heroic rebel army!

Also Jack isn't quite the focus of everything that he becomes later, and I'm afraid to say that as cool as Depp is, less is most definitely more (and frankly I thought Rush acted him off the screen in the third one)

and don't even get me started on how Davenport was given a mjor role to play in the second one, then dispensed with in the third (along with Pryce)

The third one especially is a showcase for so much thats wrong with Hollywood these days, the notion that if a film is long its somehow good, that throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the screen means it's enjoyable, that people really can be distracted from the lack of a coherant plot by oodles of cgi (actually judging by the fact a 4th one's coming out it seems they can)

That said I have heard that the fourth one is supposed to be more like the first ion tone...so I might give it a go (maybe not in 3D however!)

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

Dead Man's Chest is the only one of the three that I've ever bothered to own and rewatch. My parents own this movie they love it so much and they're not exactly genre film fans.

 

[Faldor]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

DMC is by far the weakest. The first film is genuinely great and AWE surprised me when I watched it again at how much of a plot it actually has.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

It wasn't until the characters section that I had any idea what this post was about.
​

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

It's fairly safe to say that DMC is a better film than AWE -- but I cannot agree that it's better than COTBP. About the only thing that DMC does significantly better than COTBP is its score (with AWE being, ironically, the best of the three). The thing is, COTBP has the tightest pacing and best balance between character and action. I happen to like all three films just fine, but my biggest issue with DMC & AWE is the shift away from a Pirate Movie With a Supernatural Twist™ to Supernatural Movies With a Some Pirates On The Side™.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

I saw the first one of these, enjoyed it and moved on. How many have they made, three or four? There's a fourth one coming anyway, right?

 

[Dart]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

I think there's far too many abbreviations in this thread. TBH.

 

[Blip]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

LOL

 

[Gaith]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

For me the first one is the only one I like, and I think it comes down to one major point...pirates aren't good guys! This is something the first film is very clear about-

Er, what? Jack, a pirate, is portrayed as having been wronged, and deserving of being a pirate captain. Will's conversion to a pirate is meant to be cheered. DMC, in having the pirates fight actual devils, is the only movie to not declare piracy inherently superior.

There was a time when I really liked the second one, whilst bloated I thought it set up a lot for a third film...then the third film came along and it was obvious they didn't have a clue (I think Knightly's said they were literally getting pages of script on the day of filming cos they were still writing the blessed thing)

I find it highly suggestive that the writers did commentaries for the first two movies, but not the third...

Dead Man's Chest is the only one of the three that I've ever bothered to own and rewatch. My parents own this movie they love it so much and they're not exactly genre film fans.

Finally, we agree!

 

[I Grok Spock]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

COTBP was fun.

The other two were progressively less funner.

CTOBP for the win.

 

[davejames]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

The second movie was a dull, overlong, and mindnumbing shitfest as far as I'm concerned. The first movie was no classic, but it at least had the good sense to keep things fairly simple and give Depp the space to do his thing. But the sequels took this brilliant and inspired character... and then buried him under a mountain of overblown CGI, new characters, and boring subplots.

Thankfully Depp admitted recently how confusing and "subplotty" the sequels had gotten, and swears the next one will return to the simpler structure of the first.

Here's hoping...

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

^^ Gaith...it was bound to happen

 

[flemm]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

Eh, I couldn't get into any of these films. Depp was funny in the original, and remained so to a lesser extent in the sequels. Keira Knightley is hot. Beyond that nothing in any of these movies caused me to give a crap. If anything, I found the second one to be the most forgettable of the three.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

The first film was really good...I made an error, it's the first film that my parents own. I have the first two films, watch the second more than the first, and couldn't stand the third. In fact I never finished watching it when I rented it on DVD. The sequels chose to focus more on Keira Knightly and Orlando Bloom's characters rather than Captain Jack who was the obvious star of the film. Understandable if you're wanting to make this a romantic comedy but it wasn't. It was supposed to be an action/adventure comedy focused around Depp's character. For whatever reason it turned into a romantic comedy in my opinion, not an overt one but one nonetheless. I have a minimal interest in the fourth film.

 

[Mr Light]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

You know that Will and Elizabeth are not in the fourth movie, right?

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

^ I do. Still not really interested.

 

[Gaith]

Re: For Pete's sake, people, DMC is the best and, so far, only *good*

The sequels chose to focus more on Keira Knightly and Orlando Bloom's characters rather than Captain Jack who was the obvious star of the film.

Er, wut? As I noted in the OP, DMC has the biggest Jack focus of the three.