The Hungy Earth/Cold Blood are Terrible, Terrible Episodes

[GabeHimself]

A friend of mine argued that The Hungry Earth and Cold Blood are boring episodes. I countered that they aren't just boring, they're terrible, terrible episodes:

- How could the mother let her son go home to get his goggles/radio thing when an atmosphere of danger has clearly been established? She is later shown as being a "caring" mother because the audience has been told this but everything we see shows she should have social services called on her.

- That said, The Mother wants her child back and the only person who seems to know what is going on has told her to not kill the Silurian. She then proceeds to kill the Silurian. The writer thought it would be sufficient if she was taunted. Jeez, Kirk taunted Khan more before he entered the Mutara Nebula.

- The scientist Silurian dissects people alive, for seemingly no reason, and his dialogue suggests he sees humans as beneath him but then sacrifices himself to save the humans. The dumbest part is that his death is written and filmed in a way to gain audience sympathy but he was already shown to have dissected people ALIVE.

- Why would the military leader who was very rigid turn on the elected leader of her people if she's so hierarchical? Everything we see of her shows that she has no plans for self-aggrandizement. She is not motivated by ego but she rebels at the drop of a hat against the very social order she is sworn to defend.

This episode is probably the worst written of the new series and if not for some special effects shots would be the least watchable.

 

[23skidoo]

As always, to each their own, I.D.I.C. and all that. Certainly there are so-called classic episodes I can't stand, and episodes people hate that I love. Personally, I find the Silurian two-parter to be in the latter category as I don't get some of the hate this story has generated. It could be a case of some folks over-thinking the episode (certainly wouldn't be the first time that people have forgotten that Doctor Who is meant to be escapist entertainment inspired by science teachers and pulp SF, and not some grand treatise on humanity). I need to add that this is a general comment and not at all intended to relate to any of Gabe's comments. IDIC, once again!

- How could the mother let her son go home to get his goggles/radio thing when an atmosphere of danger has clearly been established? She is later shown as being a "caring" mother because the audience has been told this but everything we see shows she should have social services called on her.

This was to set up the lesson she learned. She acted like an idiot regarding her son and so she nearly lost him forever. To a bunch of "aliens". That's probably more effective in getting her to smarten up (that and the reaction to her killing of the Silurian) than any social services visit.

- That said, The Mother wants her child back and the only person who seems to know what is going on has told her to not kill the Silurian. She then proceeds to kill the Silurian. The writer thought it would be sufficient if she was taunted. Jeez, Kirk taunted Khan more before he entered the Mutara Nebula.

She'd already made up her mind to kill the Silurian. She didn't need any taunting. And she probably assumed the Doctor was going to get her son back anyway. I'm sure there's probably some political subtext to all of this too (declaring war with little provocation, etc). Not to mention I saw it right away as a reflection of the Silurians, who likewise are planning to destroy humanity, for no real reason other than a drill popped their bubble. Both sides feel threatened. If a UNIT or Torchwood operative had been on site, the Silurian probably would have ended up with a bullet between the eyes the moment the Doctor was out of earshot.

- The scientist Silurian dissects people alive, for seemingly no reason, and his dialogue suggests he sees humans as beneath him but then sacrifices himself to save the humans. The dumbest part is that his death is written and filmed in a way to gain audience sympathy but he was already shown to have dissected people ALIVE.

See Prof. Zera and Cornelius, Planet of the Apes. Absolutely the same thing. Also, frankly, any number of human scientists who are considered quite honorable in real life, yet also have conducted animal experimentation. Also, the whole point is to show that the Doctor, once again, has changed people - so maybe the scientist won't be doing any more dissections in the future.

- Why would the military leader who was very rigid turn on the elected leader of her people if she's so hierarchical? Everything we see of her shows that she has no plans for self-aggrandizement. She is not motivated by ego but she rebels at the drop of a hat against the very social order she is sworn to defend.

Oh man, I could fill the server with examples of this happening throughout history. Heck, just read the headlines from a few weeks back when a US soldier, a self-described "birther", tried to defy orders from President Obama. Don't ever confuse military hierarchy with guaranteed loyalty to elected authority in 100% of cases. Otherwise the dictionary would not contain the word "coup". And a good half of the countries on this planet would be happy, jolly places rather than nations whose leaders are chosen by gun barrel and not by ballot.

This episode is probably the worst written of the new series and if not for some special effects shots would be the least watchable.

Again, I have to disagree. There is plenty to recommend in this episode. Of course the fate of Rory is a major aspect of the story that's been overlooked here, and the scene where the Doctor tries to help Amy keep the memory is just heartbreaking. Neve McIntosh is amazing in her dual role as the Silurian sisters. Stephen Moore (a veteran of Hitchhiker's Guide) almost steals the show as the Silurian leader.

The only complaint I have with this story is it didn't really need to be a 2-parter. Perhaps some of the issues people have had with it might not have been there had they done it all in an hour. (And much as I love The Pandorica Opens, it makes no sense for there to be Silurians at Stonehenge.)

Is it the best Doctor Who story of the revival? No where close. But if you're going to call it the worst, I have to assume you've never seen Fear Her, or - as might well be the case - you have found redeeming features in that much-maligned story, just as I have found with this one.

Alex

 

[The Wormhole]

Lizard people are cool. For that reason alone I enjoyed this Silurian two-parter.

 

[Worf2DS9]

- How could the mother let her son go home to get his goggles/radio thing when an atmosphere of danger has clearly been established? She is later shown as being a "caring" mother because the audience has been told this but everything we see shows she should have social services called on her.

This was to set up the lesson she learned. She acted like an idiot regarding her son and so she nearly lost him forever. To a bunch of "aliens". That's probably more effective in getting her to smarten up (that and the reaction to her killing of the Silurian) than any social services visit.

Remember, it was actually the Doctor who let the kid go back for his headphones. The mother was elsewhere making preparations at the time, and when she came back and learned the Doctor had let him go out alone, she chewed him out for it severely. Her reaction certainly suggests she wouldn't have let the boy go if it had been her decision.

 

[GabeHimself]

I found these two episodes boring the first time I watched them through and then unwatchable when they were rerun as part of a marathon. Most of the criticism the episode gets is because of continuity. I don't give a hoot about continuity in a TIME TRAVEL TV SHOW but some do, so IDIC . . .

But this episode just is filled with contrivances designed to further the plot and fake instances of peril. The scientist about to dissect Amy is an example of "fake peril". The Doctor didn't really change him at all -- he just got annoyed with the Military Leader and dethawed the Lizard King. But then suddenly he's sacrificing himself to help the humans at the end when he's KILLED.

The Military Leader seemed pretty jazzed up about defending her species but she KILLS one of her own?

The episode left me ungripped so I keep looking at bad characterization. Everyone is just so stilted and cardboard it really takes me out of the story.

I'm not going to comment on the Rory Death Scene since it isn't really pertinent to the flaws of the two-parter and has more to do with Series 5 as a whole.

 

[Bones2]

The story is a disgrace and an insult to the original. Chibnall should be blacklisted and not allowed to ever write anything again, except letters of apology to everyone who watched it and to everyone involved in making the original classic story.

 

[GabeHimself]

The story is a disgrace and an insult to the original. Chibnall should be blacklisted and not allowed to ever write anything again, except letters of apology to everyone who watched it and to everyone involved in making the original classic story.

But he wrote A Boy Named Jonah which was one of the better episodes of Torchwood. ::shrugs::

 

[Bones2]

Writing one of the better episodes of Touchcloth is like giving one of the better kicks in the teeth. And he also wrote completely embarrassing shite like Day One and Cyberwoman. He doesn't deserve a career. The worst part is how he was one of those snivelling superior critics telling Pip and Jane how he didn't think much of Trial. By comparison, it's like Michael Bay telling Orson Welles he didn't think much of Citizen Kane.

 

[RoJoHen]

Overall, I did not enjoy Season 5, but the Silurian 2-parter was easily the worst of it all.

 

[GabeHimself]

Writing one of the better episodes of Touchcloth is like giving one of the better kicks in the teeth. And he also wrote completely embarrassing shite like Day One and Cyberwoman. He doesn't deserve a career. The worst part is how he was one of those snivelling superior critics telling Pip and Jane how he didn't think much of Trial. By comparison, it's like Michael Bay telling Orson Welles he didn't think much of Citizen Kane.

I agree with much of what you said except the comparison of Terror of the Vervoids with Citizen Kane.

 

[Bones2]

It's comparisons and scale. Citizen Kane is to Transformers 2 what The Ultimate Foe is to Cyberwoman, if you catch my drift.

 

[Starkers]

Probably the low point of Series 5 for me (along with Amy's Choice) Not truly terrible, just bland beyond belief, which is an accusation I'd lay at a lot of Chibnall's work. 42 was dull as ditchwater as well.

Shame as I thought the first episode had some merit, in that I thought they were going somewhere at the end with the one of you will kill me thang (I actually thought it was gonna be Rory)

Chibnall is one of those writers I can never understand continuing to get work, he must have something on RTD, Moffat and a whole host of people at ITV

In fairness to the guy everything he's written since Cyberwoman has at least been better than Cyberwoman...but let's be honest, the guy has probably written shopping lists that were better than that episode!

 

[VDCNI]

Well he was right about Trial!

But yeah this was dreadful, almost Daleks Take Manhatten bad. How such an experienced writer can produce something so clumsy I don't know.

I struggle to decide if this or The Beast Below/VOTD back to back was the low point of series 5.

 

[GabeHimself]

Well I only consider things to be truly bad when they're boring AND poorly made. I put The Hungry Earth and Cold Blood in this category.

The Beast Below is well made and boring.
Victory of the Daleks is poorly made and exciting.


I find Cyberwoman to be unintentionally hilarious. Play a drinking game everytime Ianto cries or says "Lisa". Take three shots if he *cries* the word "Lisa".

 

[TedShatner10]

Chris Chibnal is the Kenneth Biller of NuWho, although his S5 two parter was a damn sight better than much of his Torchwood twaddle, also it's smugly satisfying to hear that he turned up on some kind of TV chatshow, decrying the poor writing quality of the later JNT episodes.

I really liked "Amy's Choice" though, but mainly due to the Dream Lord.

 

[WillsBabe]

I watched half of The Hungry Earth, and didn't watch Cold Blood at all. Mr WillsBabe refused to watched anything else with Doc 11 in it for several weeks. Luckily, I dvd-r'd the eps and tempted him back.

 

[The]

Probably the low point of Series 5 for me (along with Amy's Choice) Not truly terrible, just bland beyond belief, which is an accusation I'd lay at a lot of Chibnall's work. 42 was dull as ditchwater as well.

Yeah, this.

Mr WillsBabe refused to watched anything else with Doc 11 in it for several weeks.

That's weird. Matt Smith was the best part of those episodes. Why did he blame Eleven for a bad story? Did he feel the same about Ten after Daleks in Manhattan, Fear Her, or The Doctor's Daughter? All three of those were horrendous, but I didn't blame Tennant/Ten for them...

 

[Starkers]

I would argue that the story was badly made, especially having read the stuff in the brilliant book of Dr Who cos its clear a lot of work and effort went into the Silurians etc, it looks good, it just isn't good.

 

[WillsBabe]

Why did he blame Eleven for a bad story? Did he feel the same about Ten after Daleks in Manhattan, Fear Her, or The Doctor's Daughter? All three of those were horrendous, but I didn't blame Tennant/Ten for them...

No, he didn't blame 11 for the stories, he just fell out with the fifth season, the writing really, not the Doctor. He likes 11 and Matt Smith immensley. As I said, I tempted him back with the subsequent episodes and he's all back on board again.

 

[The]

Why did he blame Eleven for a bad story? Did he feel the same about Ten after Daleks in Manhattan, Fear Her, or The Doctor's Daughter? All three of those were horrendous, but I didn't blame Tennant/Ten for them...

No, he didn't blame 11 for the stories, he just fell out with the fifth season, the writing really, not the Doctor. He likes 11 and Matt Smith immensley. As I said, I tempted him back with the subsequent episodes and he's all back on board again.

Oh! Gotcha, gotcha. I misunderstood. It's Friday and I started the Guinness earlier than usual...