^ It was. DC changed it's mind.
Wonder Woman and Batman's current continuity
- Thread starter EJA
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I didnt mind the rapey Lex as much as I currently do the sleeping with the android/robot/Lois, Lex. Just plain wrong. I really enjoyed Superman post COIE. The stories were some of the best in my lifetime for the man of steel and that was in all three of the ongoings at the time. Back then th ePocket Universe created by the Time Trapper allowed Superboy to exist in LSH history without affecting Superman. Now that has faded away.
The "Lex knew Clark in Smallville" thing was a retcon, decades ago, and even as a kid I didn't buy it as backstory and motivation. Byrne's Luthor was so far superior that I was really annoyed when L'iL Lex was reintroduced as a sop to Smallville.
@Icemizer...do you understand what Cornell's intention is with the Lois android? It is a mechanism designed to act as Lex's conscience as well as confidant and matches exactly his megalomaniac personality. He sees Lois Lane as the ultimate personification of a woman he desires but can't have. So he made her into an android that serves as his conscience. He is quite aware that she isn't real. He doesn't care. Lex built her to serve a purpose, she's doing that. Cornell's entire run on Action Comics is a character study and psychological analyzes of Lex Luthor. I think it's been brilliant so far.
True, DC did use elements from Birthright, but they kept quiet on how exactly it fit into Superman's continuity, preferring to have us believe it "complimented" MoS.
And, as far as "Superman for Tomorrow," the less said about it, the better.
^ Agreed.
I really like the first six issues of For Tomorrow. Once Zod shows up, it all goes rapidly downhill, though.
No that was dumb and the politics of the writers shining through.
Nope. Mark Waid, who wrote BIRTHRIGHT, isn't vegetarian himself.
No his collaborators on the project were.
How, exactly, is that dumb? Superman doesn't even need to eat (or eat much--in any event, I've seen the dude sit inside the sun for 83,000 years; was Dr. Quintum running regular deliveries?). It's always been a bit stupid that he would indirectly kill animals (or spend money) to do so, outside a social cup of coffee or identity-keeping salad or whatever.
Plus, Mark Waid isn't a vegetarian, so I don't know which writer's politics would be shining through. Shockingly, writers often write characters with convictions they themselves do not hold. Neat, right?
Edit: collaborators? Which collaborators? Is Dan Raspler some kind of Ra's al-Ghulish ecoterrorist? According to interviews, the idea was solely Waid's, and based on Eliot S! Maggin's Superman novels, which indicate that he can see infrared. (Well, described as an aura or halo that forms around life, but presumably it's the IR given off by nervous systems.)
Mark Millar and Grant Morrison are vegetarians. The idea was in the original Superman pitch created between them and Mark Waid.
It's just silly posturing from these two. Superman has super senses that can see micro-organisms and he has met sentient plants like Swamp Thing. The idea that the Man of Steel would refuse to eat a cow, but willingly consume greens is laughable.
^ You have a source for the Millar and Morrision collaboration on Birthright? This is the first I'm hearing of it.
Well, if it were Mark Millar's idea, Superman would only eat women and minorities.
Anyway, other than the fact that those three guys are all friends (and I'm not even sure how close friends, I know Waid and Morrison talk a bit, and shill the other's work whenever they can, but I'm not sure that Waid is friends with Millar at all outside of their independent associations with Morrison), how does that make a Waid comic a mouthpiece for Morrison's ideas, when Waid himself rejects them?
I can tentatively accept the possibility that Morrison came up with the basic notion of "Superman as vegetarian" (he does tend to do that, and has even admitted in his comics themselves that he's preachy about it, because he is preachy about it*), but Waid implemented it because he thought it was a good idea. Which it is. I don't see why he would have attributed it to Maggin, if that's the case.
*Which is not necessarily a bad thing. Too many people take it personally when a writer injects their own beliefs into their work, when those ideas are in opposition to their own. For example, Gattaca has a message I, personally, find morally abhorrent, and it's extremely preachy about it. But the film is a masterwork, because of its craft and performances, and I've probably watched it twenty times now. (On the other hand, there's an intelligible principle behind why I dislike Gattaca's ideology; but who finds the message "vegetarianism is good" morally suspect? Is it a bad thing to be a vegetarian? What, does it make you feel guilty?
)
Anyway, other than the fact that those three guys are all friends (and I'm not even sure how close friends, I know Waid and Morrison talk a bit, and shill the other's work whenever they can, but I'm not sure that Waid is friends with Millar at all outside of their independent associations with Morrison), how does that make a Waid comic a mouthpiece for Morrison's ideas, when Waid himself rejects them?
I can tentatively accept the possibility that Morrison came up with the basic notion of "Superman as vegetarian" (he does tend to do that, and has even admitted in his comics themselves that he's preachy about it, because he is preachy about it*), but Waid implemented it because he thought it was a good idea. Which it is. I don't see why he would have attributed it to Maggin, if that's the case.
*Which is not necessarily a bad thing. Too many people take it personally when a writer injects their own beliefs into their work, when those ideas are in opposition to their own. For example, Gattaca has a message I, personally, find morally abhorrent, and it's extremely preachy about it. But the film is a masterwork, because of its craft and performances, and I've probably watched it twenty times now. (On the other hand, there's an intelligible principle behind why I dislike Gattaca's ideology; but who finds the message "vegetarianism is good" morally suspect? Is it a bad thing to be a vegetarian? What, does it make you feel guilty?
)
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http://theages.superman.nu/History/2000/SUPERMAN2000.php
This is the entire pitch created by Waid, Morrison and Millar that was later scrapped by DC Comics.
As you can see among the ideas listed include Superman being a "veggie" and also a prototype idea for OMD/BND.
Ah yes the famous/infamous "Superman 2000" document. I've always wanted to read this...thanks!!
Gah.
Well, you know, it's still better than One More Day. It's a horrible idea, but you can see the outline of a decent execution there.
Interesting how much more of this stuff wound up in All-Star, where the hermetic nature of the series permitted reboot-type ideas (like no Super-marriage) that would've been awful in the main DCU.
Well, you know, it's still better than One More Day. It's a horrible idea, but you can see the outline of a decent execution there.
Interesting how much more of this stuff wound up in All-Star, where the hermetic nature of the series permitted reboot-type ideas (like no Super-marriage) that would've been awful in the main DCU.
It's also interesting that on the about page the document proposal was rejected. They really went to the extreme in their proposal to revamp Superman. As for Clark being a vegetarian or a meat eater, I honestly could give a rats ass about what he eats, as long as the stories are good and entertaining I don't care about all that other stuff. I also find it interesting that it references the 'Ultimate Superman' costume design proposal from Wizard's article. "Superman: Birthright" was meant to be DC's version originally of an "Ultimate Superman", one updated for the 21st century. Too bad most of the story was unlikable.
The only thing I wish they'd permanently change about Supes' costume is that neckline, and the way his cape attaches to it.
This goes double for Captain Marvel, who wears a double-breasted T-shirt.
This goes double for Captain Marvel, who wears a double-breasted T-shirt.
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