Star Wars:The Clone Wars S3......so far

[Temis the Vorta]

Or Yoda figured Luke was as dumb as his dad, and maybe this time around, he should just try LYING.

 

[Admiral_Young]

LOL...well he did say that Luke wasn't ready to be trained. Echos what the Council originally ruled about Anakin.

 

[Set Harth]

I was just irritated by the suggestion that somebody shouldn't be allowed to write for the franchise if they don't live up to your standards of consistency.

My standards are forgiving. All I want to avoid is something amounting to a complete reversal of the films. I would have suspected that to be beyond the scope of TCW.

Yoda said the dark side isn't stronger, but it is easier and faster. So while the two sides may be equal overall, in practical effect the dark side makes someone more powerful than using the light side.

Or they mean different things by "stronger" - do you mean short term or long term?

^This.

They don't need to be mutually exclusive if Palps fails to manipulate Anakin.

They don't need to be mutually exclusive at all. Manipulated or not, by that point Anakin knows the person he's dealing with is a Sith in either case.

If Lucas intended Palps to be the main character, then it makes sense that he was the only one who was driving the story from first to last, but Palps clearly wasn't supposed to be the main character.

Main characters don't have to always be "out in front". This story isn't delegitimized by the mere fact that the villain has been driving all the significant bad things that have happened in the galaxy. Such a rule fails if applied to fiction in general.

The way he was depicted, he was too stupid and clueless to exercise true free choice.

He wasn't really depicted that way, though. In fact, he was already plotting to take down Palpatine by the end of ROTS. He was faced with only one apparent way to get what he wanted, but that doesn't eliminate choice. The other choice was to let go.

 

[fett51]

Or Yoda figured Luke was as dumb as his dad, and maybe this time around, he should just try LYING.

Luke certainly had the same attachment vulnerability as Anakin, which drew him into Vader's trap in ESB, and that Vader exploited to get him to snap in RotJ. But we never saw Luke whining about how he should have the power to decide who lives and who dies, though. He didn't have Anakin's hunger for power, lying to him in that way would've been pointless, possibly even caused him to underestimate Vader and the Emperor.

Also, I googled up the AotC commentary bit DarthPipes has mentioned a few times:

"The key part of this scene ultimately is Anakin saying "I'm not going to let this happen again." We're cementing his determination to become the most powerful Jedi. The only way you can really do that is to go to the Dark Side because the Dark Side is more powerful. If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side which is the Dark Side, but ultimately it would be your undoing. But it's that need for power and the need for power in order to satisfy your greed to keep things and to not let go of things and to allow the natural course of life to go on, which is that things come and go, and to be able to accept the changes that happen around you and not want to keep moments forever frozen in time."

 

[JD]

EW.com posted a new trailer for the rest of the Clone Wars season. According to Force.net the trailer is being shown as part of the Savage Opress theatrical screenings.

 

[Admiral_Young]

It looks good. Interesting they used Duel of the Fates for the music in the trailer.

 

[JD]

Yeah, I was too. You'd think if they were gonna do movie music, they'd have used something from AotC or RotS.

 

[Christopher]

^I think "Duel of the Fates" has become pretty iconic, and I believe it's been used in TCW trailers before.

 

[Admiral_Young]

If it has I don't remember it...

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Using DotF wasn't a big deal for me. The visuals though, were. Not to mention seeing Ahsoka go all Vader on Anakin.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I'm guessing that is why they chose the song...

 

[Christopher]

What amused me was Anakin's "Noooooo!!!" at the end of the trailer. He sure does that a lot, doesn't he?

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah I have to say I chuckled at that myself too. I think the second half of the season is going to be very interesting.

 

[lennier1]

I'm guessing that is why they chose the song...

^^ Immediately made me miss Ray Park again.

What amused me was Anakin's "Noooooo!!!" at the end of the trailer. He sure does that a lot, doesn't he?

It's part of the job description. He and Smallville's Clark Kent are competing for the "Douchebag of the Century" award.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

At least Anakin did a better job of it here than at the end of ROTS!

 

[Admiral_Young]

There is no competition...Smallville's Clark Kent easily has Clone Wars Anakin beat

 

[Temis the Vorta]

He wasn't really depicted that way, though. In fact, he was already plotting to take down Palpatine by the end of ROTS. He was faced with only one apparent way to get what he wanted, but that doesn't eliminate choice. The other choice was to let go.

He was never depicted as having a good motive to jump to the Dark Side, regardless of whether he thought he could take down Palps, and he was depicted as so brainless that I had no faith in his ability to come up with a viable plan or carry it out. He had no internal life that would allow me to understand where he was coming from as a character, and he failed to win my sympathy to root for him in the plotline, which is something any main character, even a "villain," needs to do.

In retrospect, it could have been more the actor's fault than the writer's. Seeing how much better the character is turning out, still under Lucas' direction, in TCW, makes me think that Lucas actually did have some good ideas in mind but simply couldn't get them across onscreen, largely because he'd botched the casting so catastrophically that no writer could have compensated for an actor incapable of handling the role. Even if Anakin in the PT wasn't intended to be a sullen, stupid brat, that is the portrayal that Lucas got. I'm happy to give him a second chance to get it right this time, which he happily seems to be doing better than I could have hoped for.

Main characters don't have to always be "out in front".

Yes they do. You clearly don't understand how good stories are written. Nobody wants a passive main character. Well maybe you do, but clearly you have no taste.

Lucas' intent here is fairly interesting:

We're cementing his determination to become the most powerful Jedi. The only way you can really do that is to go to the Dark Side because the Dark Side is more powerful. If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side which is the Dark Side, but ultimately it would be your undoing. But it's that need for power and the need for power in order to satisfy your greed to keep things and to not let go of things and to allow the natural course of life to go on, which is that things come and go, and to be able to accept the changes that happen around you and not want to keep moments forever frozen in time."

That's not a bad idea for a character - someone who is strong, dynamic, self-confident and honestly feels that things would be better if he were in charge, "making everything right." His deep-seated motive could be a fear of losing what he loves, and he could still seem powerful and charismatic on the surface, with the inner life being something apparent to the more perceptive members of the audience. By keeping the weakness muted, and not throwing it in our faces, Anakin would seem tragic rather than contemptable.

But this kind of nuance doesn't happen without a lot of effort and care. Lucas needed to depict the heroic aspects of Anakin better than he did in the PT (and is doing a much better job of in TCW), and he needed to keep the inner weakness a lot more muted and subtle, instead of hiring an actor who would pinwheel around shrieking like a four year old having a tantrum. Good idea, horrible execution, but in fairness, Lucas chose a very difficult sort of character to depict on-screen, much more difficult than a straightfoward hero type like Luke. I don't fault him that it's taking him two tries to get it right, and I'm glad he gave it another shot.

EW.com posted a new trailer for the rest of the Clone Wars season. According to Force.net the trailer is being shown as part of the Savage Opress theatrical screenings.

WOW! That looks incredible!!! They seem to be going where I've been wondering if they'd go, in order to establish the groundwork for Anakin's eventual fall. I'm wishing Christmas was over already so we could get more TCW now! This series has "grown up" incredibly since it started out as a fun but somewhat mindless romp through battle stories.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

In hopes that I didn't bogart the thread here's another item to discuss: did Dave Filoni do a walk-on role in S5 of Weeds? Because there was a scene with a guy who sure looked like him (hat and all), in a dispute over "clones" of a somewhat greener sort than we're used to discussing here. I can't find anything on imdb, but that seems like a bit of a coincidence to me.

 

[Set Harth]

He was never depicted as having a good motive to jump to the Dark Side

It was pretty strongly emphasized in the film. You can't miss it.

His deep-seated motive could be a fear of losing what he loves

Or maybe you can.

he failed to win my sympathy to root for him in the plotline, which is something any main character, even a "villain," needs to do.

You've been rooting for the villains all along? Does that mean you root against the protagonists or that you root for everyone, making the whole thing meaningless?

Seeing how much better the character is turning out, still under Lucas' direction, in TCW

I think you mean Dave Filoni's direction.

I'm happy to give him a second chance to get it right this time, which he happily seems to be doing better than I could have hoped for.

Exhibit A: Season 3. We might have hoped for better.

Yes they do.

Another imaginary rule, easily contradicted by existing literature. Always being "out in front" isn't good storytelling; it's lazy, unrealistic storytelling, which often insults the intelligence of the viewer.

You clearly don't understand how good stories are written. Nobody wants a passive main character. Well maybe you do, but clearly you have no taste.

You clearly don't understand that argumentum ad hominem is widely recognized to be nothing more than desperate logical fallacy.

 

[Whofan]

I think it's mainly Filoni who is in charge of the show. Lucas mainly gives them ideas or concepts, or has final story decisions, I think, as he tends to do with high-profile EU projects like Shadows of the Empire and the Force Unleashed.