Building the Mighty Mushroom - Spacedock

[Deks]

Or the VFX team messed the scale of the 1701-A when they did that shot.

I think it's entirely possible the starbase used in TNG is the same size as the one at Earth, just using larger doors.

On the other hand, making these bases inherently larger wouldn't really be that big of a deal for the Feds.
Since most of their stations and ships are likely modular, they can easily split the construction between several member planets and construction facilities across the Federation and just assemble the thing when it's done (which in their terms could be in a year, or less).

 

[Galileo7]

Here is a blueprint link to a Starbase 79(Spacedock) scroll down:
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/index-bp.html

 

[Saquist]

Here is a blueprint link to a Starbase 79(Spacedock) scroll down:
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/index-bp.html

that schematic is completely wrong though.

 

[Galileo7]

Here is a blueprint link to a Starbase 79(Spacedock) scroll down:
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/index-bp.html

that schematic is completely wrong though.

Does an accurate one exist?

 

[BolianAuthor]

Yeah, I find it silly that a big base like that would have such a massive botanical section... I mean that's just seriously a LOT of wasted real estate... especially when you consider that the base is in orbit of a Class-M planet... it really makes no sense.

 

[Galileo7]

Yeah, I find it silly that a big base like that would have such a massive botanical section... I mean that's just seriously a LOT of wasted real estate... especially when you consider that the base is in orbit of a Class-M planet... it really makes no sense.

That is a very good point.

 

[Deks]

Yeah, I find it silly that a big base like that would have such a massive botanical section... I mean that's just seriously a LOT of wasted real estate... especially when you consider that the base is in orbit of a Class-M planet... it really makes no sense.

That is a very good point.

Perhaps, but for some people who prefer living in space, having a large botanical section might prove useful.
Furthermore, they could be using the section for various biological experimentation in space, and they could be using it for actual food growth in addition to regular food production facilities.

There are probably a variety of applications one can use that section for.

 

[BolianAuthor]

^

Well, granted, they could do a lot of hydroponics and what not, but that would only require hydroponics labs, and not some vast hollowed-out hull section with a fake sky. Even if they did have stuff like that, it shouldn't be there in the TNG-era, due to the advent of Holodecks... there could be many large community Holodecks on such a large station, that would eliminate the need for all that wasted space.

 

[BolianAuthor]

Here is a blueprint link to a Starbase 79(Spacedock) scroll down:
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/index-bp.html

that schematic is completely wrong though.

Does an accurate one exist?

Not that I know of... which gives me an idea...

 

[Deks]

^

Well, granted, they could do a lot of hydroponics and what not, but that would only require hydroponics labs, and not some vast hollowed-out hull section with a fake sky. Even if they did have stuff like that, it shouldn't be there in the TNG-era, due to the advent of Holodecks... there could be many large community Holodecks on such a large station, that would eliminate the need for all that wasted space.

The schematics we have are for the Earth space-dock, correct?
The one in orbit of Earth.
We don't know if other mushroom bases in the Federation have the botanical section.

It's possible they removed them much later on with integration of Holodeck technology and used the section for something else, although, it wasn't until the Enterprise-D came into service that holodecks 'matured' to the necessary level of sophistication we saw in 'Encounter at Farpoint' (if I remember correctly, in that same episode of TNG, Riker commented how the holodecks he used before never came close to the ones on Enterpise).

There's also a possibility that some scientists prefer to work with an actual botanical area instead of a holographic recreation.
O'Brien was also willing to give his wife sufficient space to create a botanical garden on DS9.

Another possibility might be that even with invention of Holodecks, they could still retain the botanical area if nothing else than for grand park.

 

[David cgc]

I don't think the park is so much the problem as the fifty decks or so of perfectly empty space above it accommodating the sky dome.

 

[Saquist]

Here is a blueprint link to a Starbase 79(Spacedock) scroll down:
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/index-bp.html

that schematic is completely wrong though.

Does an accurate one exist?

Well....I think so.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/spacedock.jpg
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...sm7CQ&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...ndsp=16&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:50&biw=1408&bih=678

Yeah, I find it silly that a big base like that would have such a massive botanical section... I mean that's just seriously a LOT of wasted real estate... especially when you consider that the base is in orbit of a Class-M planet... it really makes no sense.

That is a very good point.

Perhaps, but for some people who prefer living in space, having a large botanical section might prove useful.
Furthermore, they could be using the section for various biological experimentation in space, and they could be using it for actual food growth in addition to regular food production facilities.

There are probably a variety of applications one can use that section for.

I concur. Spacedock actually serves as a Life boat for all life on Earth and the Guardian of the planet. In an emergency it could break orbit. At first I didn't think it was logical for a space that large but there is ample space for docks in that section aswell.

 

[Timo]

To be sure, Spacedock is on the puny side as far as O'Neill colonies go.

Building it out of "contemporary" materials such as lunar concrete is something guys in the 1970s thought we'd be doing in the 2000s. And once the first one was done, another one ten times bigger would be completed within a decade, with the industry just mushrooming (pardon the pun) and producing ever-bigger space colonies. Finding the inhabitants would be no problem, and that could be turned to profit somehow, according to the proponents, feeding the program to continuing growth.

Many a Trek novel has postulated O'Neill colonies for the 21st century Earth (and several of them use the plot device where such a colony unwillingly becomes an interstellar ark). They may have gone out of vogue after warp drive was introduced, because one could then simply fly the colonists to an already habitable planet and have them pitch up some tents. But Earth could have built dozens after interplanetary travel became routine in the 1990s (or perhaps 1980s) and before WWIII complicated such things.

Building Spacedock out of "future" materials might take longer, even if it gave a sturdier and more useful end result. But we've seen the orbit of Mars littered with giant space habitats in "Relativity" (there'd be millions of those if the scene were representative of the whole orbit!), and we've seen two types of vast construct above Earth, in STIII/IV/VI and in STXI, respectively. There's certainly room for more there.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Saquist]

I believe the Galactic Whirpool was a book that featured such a colony known as L5.

 

[Timo]

Also, one of the "Lost Era" books, The Sundered, featured a well-traveled O'Neill from the WWIII era. And early fan works suggested that Terra Ten was in fact an O'Neill that sailed to outer space (again to flee WWIII) and ended up at that Incredible Shrinking Planet. Although that's not a particularly good fit of "Terratin Incident" dialogue...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Deks]

Taking into consideration Federation technology in the 23rd and 24th centuries, they effectively could have hundreds of thousands of shipyards, not to mention orbital complexes like the mushroom star-base (of the larger variety outside of SOL).

A single solar system can easily hold millions of these with plenty of room to spare.

Plus taking into consideration their later capability of converting energy to matter and back again, they can effectively use any type of raw material readily available in abundance for replication of other more complex materials.

Say they take large asteroids rich in various alloys and break them down into energy, then reconstitute them into needed materials for stations... even if you would need say 4 asteroids to get the needed matter to energy and energy to matter ratio so you can create materials for the star-base, such asteroids are in high quantities in this solar system alone.

Realistically, they SHOULD be able to use any raw material and use it either as an energy source, or means to replicate new materials (depending if the matter that is converted produces sufficiently high energy gain - and there are likely materials that can give you that while the breaking down process itself would essentially be low on energy).

 

[Saquist]

It's like someone once said....A Fortress has to be one of the stupidest or most brilliant concepts in war.

It can't move...a sitting duck for siege
Yet...When used in combination with Fleet movements it becomes the ultimate defense.

 

[Timo]

...Also, a space fortress sounds like the best sort. The very fact that it sits in the middle of space means that it's gonna be basically self-sufficient and immune to the starvation aspect of a siege.

Of course, a smallish space installation will soon run out of other things besides breathing air or drinking water or food. Which might be all the incentive one needs for building humungous space installations. Those could manufacture their own endless supply of torpedoes, as pointed out above, and could also go on existing even if the rest of the UFP didn't.

How could one effectively besiege a starbase? And what would one win by that?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Santaman]

^^ Indeed. You only besiege a fortress when its blocking your way, if you can go around and avoid the thing then you're going to take that route instead of breaking yer teeth on the fortress.
Of course having a huge one in orbit around the target planet will ruin your day.

 

[Timo]

...But if there's just one there, then essentially half the planet is yours and the starbase can do nothing about it. Except launch guided munitions or probes, but that may not be sufficient for controlling the "dark" side of the planet.

Which may be why several of the space station starbases we see are located nowhere near planets, thus avoiding dangerous cones of blindness.

Timo Saloniemi