That's because he was cheating. And then they gave him a starship. I think things balanced out in the end...
How do you want the regeneration limit dealt with?
- Thread starter Bones2
- Start date
That's because he was cheating. And then they gave him a starship. I think things balanced out in the end...
Exactly. In this universe, instead of a speech that proves his "original thinking", he had to put it to practical use THUS forever proving that James T. Kirk "doesn't like to lose". And then he got the flagship of the Fleet as a thank-you. Win/Win.
Just because RTD called it a 'throwaway line' doesn't mean that it was. It's been followed up on and mentioned multiple times.
I think that, in the past, Who hasn't had the best track record for tackling these sorts of things. I don't like it when the stories become "epics," because as others upthread have said, inevitably you get disappointed. Thirty years ago, I would have thought that Daleks fighting Cybermen would have been the coolest thing ever, an absolutely riveting piece of TV.
We got a few one-liners squeezed in while Rose was talking on the phone to her mom, IIRC. Not really the stuff of legend.
I'm starting to come around to the view that maybe the best way to address this is not to address it: the Doctor just regenerates again, and doesn't know why. He might try to find out, but he never will.
No matter what they show, I'll still love the show, if only for sentimental and nostalgic reasons. But I'd rather they under-played rather than over-played this one.
We got a few one-liners squeezed in while Rose was talking on the phone to her mom, IIRC. Not really the stuff of legend.
I'm starting to come around to the view that maybe the best way to address this is not to address it: the Doctor just regenerates again, and doesn't know why. He might try to find out, but he never will.
No matter what they show, I'll still love the show, if only for sentimental and nostalgic reasons. But I'd rather they under-played rather than over-played this one.
I think it's a sad indictment of new Who that we've got to a point where people wouldn't want a story like this because we can't trust the current crop of writers not to fuck it up. Perhaps if the net were cast a little wider in terms of writers there'd be more of a chance of someone capable springing up - after all, the only new writer to the show last series was Richard Curtis, while regular hacks Gatiss and Chibnall put in even more dismal showings than usual.
Agreed. Of the returning writers, I'd say only Gareth Roberts' The Lodger was the stand-out best one...
Partially contradicting some of my comments in a related thread (or perhaps voting with the opportunity to clarify my feelings now), I voted for there to be a story where the Doctor gets more regenerations.
To end the programme with the death of the 13th Doctor would be, IMO, a pity- a foolish decision that would needlessly end a great vehicle for storytelling and it is difficult to think that -for good business reasons- the BBC would kill something unnecessarily.
I have been watching Doctor Who since the 1980s and I both appreciate and groan about certain bits in both Classic and NuWho. The regeneration limit was not a throw-away line in the original series, however, it was indeed an important fact at the center of the story of one episode and referred to more than once since then. It is a fact. BUT there are ways to get around it, the details of which have never been laid out to the viewer/fan. SO I do not feel that the event of living beyond the regeneration limit should be ignored (definitely not), or dismissed with a glib line (especially not with a glib line).
The Doctor is an eccentric, but VERY curious fellow. Curiosity is why he travels the universe and what gets him in trouble. His understanding IS that he will not wake up after his 13th regeneration dies. For him to still be alive at that point and not be curious as to why he is still living would be as inconceivable as me being hit head-on by a city bus, waking up on a park bench without a scratch on me, saying "Huh! That should have really hurt!", and getting up and going on my way. These events would spell the end our each of our respective existences.... in no way would either of us walk away from the event without wondering, "What the Helll?!?", and even being obsessed with finding an explanation.
It would, however, be my preference that the explanation come after the event- several episodes later. Maybe it is related to Time Lord technology or Time Lord physiology, or maybe the extra regenerations come from some outside being, force or power. As others have mentioned, however, please don't do the story unless/until it is a really good story. If it is not a good story, keep the Doctor and us all wondering.
Don't give a specific number on new regenerations, either. Play it as if each one could be his last. Unlimited regenerations would take away some of the drama, for me. Keep a bit of tension in there at all times.
To end the programme with the death of the 13th Doctor would be, IMO, a pity- a foolish decision that would needlessly end a great vehicle for storytelling and it is difficult to think that -for good business reasons- the BBC would kill something unnecessarily.
I have been watching Doctor Who since the 1980s and I both appreciate and groan about certain bits in both Classic and NuWho. The regeneration limit was not a throw-away line in the original series, however, it was indeed an important fact at the center of the story of one episode and referred to more than once since then. It is a fact. BUT there are ways to get around it, the details of which have never been laid out to the viewer/fan. SO I do not feel that the event of living beyond the regeneration limit should be ignored (definitely not), or dismissed with a glib line (especially not with a glib line).
The Doctor is an eccentric, but VERY curious fellow. Curiosity is why he travels the universe and what gets him in trouble. His understanding IS that he will not wake up after his 13th regeneration dies. For him to still be alive at that point and not be curious as to why he is still living would be as inconceivable as me being hit head-on by a city bus, waking up on a park bench without a scratch on me, saying "Huh! That should have really hurt!", and getting up and going on my way. These events would spell the end our each of our respective existences.... in no way would either of us walk away from the event without wondering, "What the Helll?!?", and even being obsessed with finding an explanation.
It would, however, be my preference that the explanation come after the event- several episodes later. Maybe it is related to Time Lord technology or Time Lord physiology, or maybe the extra regenerations come from some outside being, force or power. As others have mentioned, however, please don't do the story unless/until it is a really good story. If it is not a good story, keep the Doctor and us all wondering.
Don't give a specific number on new regenerations, either. Play it as if each one could be his last. Unlimited regenerations would take away some of the drama, for me. Keep a bit of tension in there at all times.
This is what I was thinking too. (Full disclosure, I had heard of Doctor Who for years, but never got into the show until Eccleston, but the wife and I have enjoyed exploring all the previous Doctors. Anyhoo.)
Imagine for a moment a world without Doctor Who (the character). No TV show, no audio show, no books, nothing. Then imagine a TV show where an eccentric, nutty-professor type is running around with a dimension hopping machine trying to do good in the universe, and when people ask him why, he basically tells them "I should have died years ago, but for some reason I still live. I can't figure out why, but I will use this gift from the universe to give a little back to it."
Basically, give the Doctor more regenerations with no explanations. Maybe once a year drop a hint, but don't ever give too much info. And make him always uncertain of what's going to happen the next time he is wounded. It will be a change to the character, but I think the franchise could survive it.
Very, very well said. Much more eloquent than any way I could express on my own. As for whether they explain it after the 13th, now, or even as a flashback clip to the Time War...even a conversation....as long as it is addressed head-on and clearly. That's my preference, anyway...
I like a lot of VoV, and some parts I'm meh about. However, Smith was on-fire the entire episode. It was this episode where I finally got that awesome "Doctor" vibe from him. He was eccentric and aloof and zany and everything at first, and I loved him. But, that Quid Pro Quo between him and the Countess...damn...that was when I was like "OH! Doctor! There you are, man!"
Very, very well said. Much more eloquent than any way I could express on my own. As for whether they explain it after the 13th, now, or even as a flashback clip to the Time War...even a conversation....as long as it is addressed head-on and clearly. That's my preference, anyway...
I really like the idea of the 14th Doctor waking up and having no idea why he's alive. They don't need to explain it outright (not right away, at least), but they shouldn't just ignore it. The 14th Doctor should be legitimately surprised that he's alive, and it should have a direct impact on the way he carries himself.
That's fantastic, man. I have genuinely never heard of anyone saying this before. I started with Classic Who, and love the Modern Era equally. However, it does my heart good to see at least one new fan found some love for the shows I grew up on. Welcome, my friend. Enjoy Doctor Who!
For me, it's more a sense that the show's always been better at the smaller stuff than the bigger stuff. Out of the epic stories, how many really worked? Genesis, maybe The War Games?
I am a classic Doctor Who fan, dating back to the late 70s. I don't think the limit should be dealt with by anything other than an off-handed comment, simply because continuity is never what Doctor Who excels at. The 13 regeneration limit itself is contradictory with previous statements. As a kid I never even tried to figure out how the future of Earth with the Daleks and Ogrons fit with the one with the Draconians or the Nerva station, or the current 51st century New Earth future, or any of a dozen others which don't seem to fit together in any logical way. Doctor Who is just about telling some fun sci-fi stories where the Doctor plops down in the middle of some wacky situation, solves it, and takes off again. Any coherent mythology seems to run counter to the spirit of the show, in my opinion.
Of course not. There are two separate shows named Doctor Who -- one that ran from 1963 to 1989, and one that started again in 2005. Just as I wouldn't call the various Twilight Zone revivals the same show as Rod Sterling's original, I wouldn't call modern DW the same series as the original Doctor Who.
I care about everything from 2005 onwards, and I care about the interesting parts of the original series.
ETA:
And thus my point proven, perfectly.
We've had this discussion before. He only counts 2005-onwards as "real" Doctor Who...
It's not that I don't count DW TOS as "real" Doctor Who. It's just that I don't really care about it. I like a few of the interesting bits and pieces from it, but for the most part, I just don't give a shit.
Sure, it's Doctor Who, too, but I don't think nuWho has any particular obligations to it.
You hate fan-wankery? Then why are you watching the current version of Doctor Who then? It's nothing more than fan fiction sanctioned by the BBC.
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I voted "address it with a glib line." Except not glib so much as don't make a big issue out of it. I've not watched the old series, but my understanding is the Master was granted a new set of regenerations, right? (Or maybe that comes from Simm's Master, hmm...) It'd be easy enough to address if the Doctor in running across a former companion or somebody else who mentions the Regen. Limit says that he got a new set from the Time War. Heck, with Amy's curiosity it might even be something she asks about and the Doctor could explain it briefly, maybe as one of those side conversations that they have every now and then.
Agreed. No matter how fun the spectacle of the "epics" (remembering I've only seen nuWho), Doctor Who shines with the smaller stuff - especially this last series.
That's rather a poor comparison, considering the Twilight Zone was an anthology show that (aside from the Narrator) don't share characters or storylines from within the show itself let alone its later incarnations.
The Doctor is clearly the same character as was on the show from the 60s to the 80s (and the TV Movie), which is more important for this discussion than whether they're actually the same show.
Agreed. No matter how fun the spectacle of the "epics" (remembering I've only seen nuWho), Doctor Who shines with the smaller stuff - especially this last series.
That's rather a poor comparison, considering the Twilight Zone was an anthology show that (aside from the Narrator) don't share characters or storylines from within the show itself let alone its later incarnations.
The Doctor is clearly the same character as was on the show from the 60s to the 80s (and the TV Movie), which is more important for this discussion than whether they're actually the same show.
Yeah well I have been watching since Pertwee was on. I am by no means a new fan, I couldn't care less about the regeneration limit.
Just ignore it and move on.