Riker after The Best of Both Worlds

[Snaploud]

What I would have liked to hear from Starfleet Command:

Message to acting Captain Riker: we are promoting Data to full Commander and giving him the position of first officer of the Enterprise. We have a couple captaincy openings for you. We also have an opening as first officer of a tug boat. It's up to you.

 

[willg]

But when your a military officer in a time of need you don't get the option of staying with family.

How was Riker a military officer in a time of need? The Borg cube had been destroyed.

Shelby makes a comment at the end of BOBW - about how the fleet will be back up in less than a year. This implies that the 39 ships lost represented a large portion of the fleet.
There were no ships for Riker to take command of. The Melbourne was destroyed, and the captains who lost their ships at Wolf 359 had to wait around a year until they got new ones.
I don't think there was an immediate need for Riker to become a captain. Apart for the Klingon civil war - during which Riker did captain a ship - his time on the Enterprise was relatively peaceful.

Starfleet lost 39 starship captains' and 39 executive officers (plus, at least, one Admiral) at Wolf 359, perhaps some who were slotted to take new commands as they were complete. Starfleet is always building new vessels.

Riker is an experienced command grade officer, which in now in short supply thanks to the Borg. More importantly, Riker is squatting on a position (for fifteen years!) that is used to train future starship captains. When Starfleet needs to replenish its' supply of command grade officers.

38 as Sisko survived as XO of the Saratoga, but you raise a good point.

 

[Anwar]

Couldn't they just ORDER him to take a command? I mean sure, that'd be pretty ungrateful for all the good that he and the ENT-D crew have done but Command being ungrateful for the good the Enterprise crew's throughout history have done is nothing new...

Ungrateful? It's his job.

From The Doomsday Machine

DECKER: Our primary duty is to maintain life and safety of Federation planets. Do you deny that?

Do you think the Federation put Riker through the Academy out of the goodness of their collective hearts?

I'd think that saving the Federation from being assimilated would've earned him some brownie points with someone.

Instead it's more along the lines of "Thanks for saving our civilization from being destroyed. Now go take out the garbage."

Hell, even in TVH the Fed President was nice enough to say "You saved us from our short-sightedness yet again" or something before they busted Kirk back down to Captain.

 

[BillJ]

Couldn't they just ORDER him to take a command? I mean sure, that'd be pretty ungrateful for all the good that he and the ENT-D crew have done but Command being ungrateful for the good the Enterprise crew's throughout history have done is nothing new...

Ungrateful? It's his job.

From The Doomsday Machine

DECKER: Our primary duty is to maintain life and safety of Federation planets. Do you deny that?

Do you think the Federation put Riker through the Academy out of the goodness of their collective hearts?

I'd think that saving the Federation from being assimilated would've earned him some brownie points with someone.

Instead it's more along the lines of "Thanks for saving our civilization from being destroyed. Now go take out the garbage."

Hell, even in TVH the Fed President was nice enough to say "You saved us from our short-sightedness yet again" or something before they busted Kirk back down to Captain.

You kill me!

SHELBY: We'll have the fleet back up in less than a year. I imagine you'll get your choice of any Starfleet command, sir

Having you choice of any command in Starfleet isn't exactly taking out the garbage.

 

[Anwar]

Well, she said "I imagine". I don't think it happened.

A better idea to keep Riker around while getting him off the ENT-D would've been for them to get his own command...as Captain of an older vessel whose main job is to serve as the chief Starship of the Bajoran sector (pre-wormhole) and DS9's Protector. In other words, in recognition for his services Riker is shipped off to a backwater outpost on an outdated starship with a Station Commander who is (initially) wanting to resign.

Of course, once Sisko finds the wormhole and gets his groove back its better for both of them.

 

[Gary7]

What I would have liked to hear from Starfleet Command:

Message to acting Captain Riker: we are promoting Data to full Commander and giving him the position of first officer of the Enterprise. We have a couple captaincy openings for you. We also have an opening as first officer of a tug boat. It's up to you.

Well said!

 

[Mr Radioactive]

But when your a military officer in a time of need you don't get the option of staying with family.

How was Riker a military officer in a time of need? The Borg cube had been destroyed.

Shelby makes a comment at the end of BOBW - about how the fleet will be back up in less than a year. This implies that the 39 ships lost represented a large portion of the fleet.
There were no ships for Riker to take command of. The Melbourne was destroyed, and the captains who lost their ships at Wolf 359 had to wait around a year until they got new ones.
I don't think there was an immediate need for Riker to become a captain. Apart for the Klingon civil war - during which Riker did captain a ship - his time on the Enterprise was relatively peaceful.

Starfleet lost 39 starship captains' and 39 executive officers (plus, at least, one Admiral) at Wolf 359, perhaps some who were slotted to take new commands as they were complete. Starfleet is always building new vessels.

Riker is an experienced command grade officer, which in now in short supply thanks to the Borg. More importantly, Riker is squatting on a position (for fifteen years!) that is used to train future starship captains. When Starfleet needs to replenish its' supply of command grade officers.

It was never stated on any TNG show that Starfleet lost 39 captains and 39 executive officers.
The rate at which Starfleet was building new vessels was the problem. In The Wounded - nearly a year and a half after BOBW - an Admiral tells Picard that Starfleet is not prepared for a conflict. The possibilities for promotion in Starfleet at that time, I think, was probably diminished because much of the fleet was lost.

The role of first officer is a serious position. For example, in The Wounded, Captain Maxwell nearly started a war. If Commander Riker had of been Maxwell's first officer, there is no way he would have let Maxwell attack the Cardassians. I expect Maxwell had one of your career officers beside him.
In BOBW, Captain Picard is abducted, and the first officer has to take command of the ship. In the flagship, the first officer has to essentially be another captain. That is what Riker was.

 

[BillJ]

How was Riker a military officer in a time of need? The Borg cube had been destroyed.

Shelby makes a comment at the end of BOBW - about how the fleet will be back up in less than a year. This implies that the 39 ships lost represented a large portion of the fleet.
There were no ships for Riker to take command of. The Melbourne was destroyed, and the captains who lost their ships at Wolf 359 had to wait around a year until they got new ones.
I don't think there was an immediate need for Riker to become a captain. Apart for the Klingon civil war - during which Riker did captain a ship - his time on the Enterprise was relatively peaceful.

Starfleet lost 39 starship captains' and 39 executive officers (plus, at least, one Admiral) at Wolf 359, perhaps some who were slotted to take new commands as they were complete. Starfleet is always building new vessels.

Riker is an experienced command grade officer, which in now in short supply thanks to the Borg. More importantly, Riker is squatting on a position (for fifteen years!) that is used to train future starship captains. When Starfleet needs to replenish its' supply of command grade officers.

It was never stated on any TNG show that Starfleet lost 39 captains and 39 executive officers.

Who exactly do you think were on those 39 starships, you so kindly pointed out, lost at Wolf 359?

Riker/Frakes needed to be moved on post-Best of Both Worlds, for the good of the show and Modern Trek. His character arc was complete. It was just a symptom of a greater problem that caused the downward spiral.

Riker was at the end of his character arc and its' tough to respect an actor who doesn't know when he's no longer integral to the show he is part of. Essentially hanging around to collect a paycheck.

Once again, huge fan of the character prior to The Best of Both Worlds... after that, not so much.

 

[Anwar]

It would've meant keeping him on the show for about 2 more years, but dropping him off on DS9 as a ship commander assigned to protecting DS9 would've been an alright idea.

 

[BillJ]

It would've meant keeping him on the show for about 2 more years, but dropping him off on DS9 as a ship commander assigned to protecting DS9 would've been an alright idea.

You could have very easily have had him take on the Sisko role with some tweaking. But then it comes back to the question of: can Frakes carry a series on his own?

 

[Pseudo]

It would've meant keeping him on the show for about 2 more years, but dropping him off on DS9 as a ship commander assigned to protecting DS9 would've been an alright idea.

You could have very easily have had him take on the Sisko role with some tweaking. But then it comes back to the question of: can Frakes carry a series on his own?

If perhaps Troi had died during BoBW and Riker had made the decision that led to her death I don't think that it would have taken a great deal more tweaking than that.

And as for the question of whether Frakes could carry a series on his own, I'd say that DS9 was much less focused on the man in charge and that the ensemble could have carried him.

 

[BillJ]

It would've meant keeping him on the show for about 2 more years, but dropping him off on DS9 as a ship commander assigned to protecting DS9 would've been an alright idea.

You could have very easily have had him take on the Sisko role with some tweaking. But then it comes back to the question of: can Frakes carry a series on his own?

If perhaps Troi had died during BoBW and Riker had made the decision that led to her death I don't think that it would have taken a great deal more tweaking than that.

And as for the question of whether Frakes could carry a series on his own, I'd say that DS9 was much less focused on the man in charge and that the ensemble could have carried him.

But if TPTB had faith in Frakes being able to carry a series, there would've been no need to renegotiate with Stewart at the end of season three. Regardless of what we think, they were the ones who had to be sold on Frakes as a series lead. If I remember correctly, and I am getting old, Frakes had actually pitched the idea of him and Sirtis heading up Star Trek: Voyager. Which was promptly shot down.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

I think Paramount was set on a "fresh" break with Voyager, by not having any ties with TNG. In season six when they realized Stewart wouldn't go further than the seventh year, they DID evaluate options for keeping TNG going, be it under Riker or a different captain (and Jellico was evaluated as a possibilty for just that). In the end the realities of expanding actor salaries and production values just made sense to start with a completely different crew. Nevermind the fact that Jonathan Frakes had been expanding himself at that time. We all get old.

Anyway, one factor that people may have forgotten is that just a year later, Starfleet blockaded the Klingon-Romulan border and had to grab a number of ships under repair or construction to make up a 20-ship fleet. The Enterprise and probably other ships had to spread their command crews around to have viable officers in charge of some other ships: Riker captained the Excalibur with LaForge while Data had the Sutherland. This points to a fleet that was still pretty spread out, even in a strategically-valuable area like one close to the border between two adversarial powers.

Anyway, after saving the day (sic) following Wolf 359 someone may have considered it a favor to him to NOT promote him, given that this would seem the logical thing to do. And regarding Picard staying in command after BOBW, hell - we've seen examples of whole starship crews going merrily on their way after being rendered insane, compromised mentally or bloody-well transformed into crazy creatures, where logically the whole lot of them should have been relieved of duty for an extended period of time while their ship was handed over to some other gang. But this is Starfleet, after all. Happens everyday. :P

Mark

 

[Ssosmcin]

Riker/Frakes needed to be moved on post-Best of Both Worlds, for the good of the show and Modern Trek. His character arc was complete. It was just a symptom of a greater problem that caused the downward spiral.

Riker was at the end of his character arc and its' tough to respect an actor who doesn't know when he's no longer integral to the show he is part of. Essentially hanging around to collect a paycheck.

Once again, huge fan of the character prior to The Best of Both Worlds... after that, not so much.

Riker didn't have a "character arc" anymore than Picard did. He had a backstory and one or two episodes focusing on his career, but you can't say his character stopped having a purpose after BOBW. He was a character on an episodic TV series, like everyone else involved. If actors voluntarily left a series because they weren't integral show, then TNG would have been an anthology. TNG didn't work like that. The characters weren't integral to the series as a whole, they were integral to certain individual episodes. ANY of them could have been replaced without hurting the show's format. So why not lose respect for Patrick Stewart or LeVar Burton? Where were their characters going? This was TNG, not The X Files (which should have ended when Mulder finished his arc). It wasn't built around the character arcs, it was a format series with format characters going through episodic dramas.

 

[Mr Radioactive]

What I would have liked to hear from Starfleet Command:

Message to acting Captain Riker: we are promoting Data to full Commander and giving him the position of first officer of the Enterprise. We have a couple captaincy openings for you. We also have an opening as first officer of a tug boat. It's up to you.

Well said!

Well said. We're going to dispose of Riker because of his lack of ambition for an android whose very nature omits ambition.

Who exactly do you think were on those 39 starships, you so kindly pointed out, lost at Wolf 359?

I think it is a mistake to assume that every single captain died at Wolf 359. At least some of them must have surivived, or used escape pods.

 

[Shatnertage]

I think Riker had finally found a family on the Enterprise D. Not just with Troi, but with all of the crew.

It would have been interesting if Patrick Steward hadn't continued on the show, and Riker became the captain. I wonder if shows like Tapestry or The Inner Light could have been made. It is possible because Riker would have needed to have become a more developed character.
How would Riker have handled Darmok, The Inner Light, the Klingon saga, Ensign Ro?

Oh, I think we saw exactly how he handled Ensign Ro (or she handled him) in "Conundrum."

 

[Mr Radioactive]

I think Riker had finally found a family on the Enterprise D. Not just with Troi, but with all of the crew.

It would have been interesting if Patrick Steward hadn't continued on the show, and Riker became the captain. I wonder if shows like Tapestry or The Inner Light could have been made. It is possible because Riker would have needed to have become a more developed character.
How would Riker have handled Darmok, The Inner Light, the Klingon saga, Ensign Ro?

Oh, I think we saw exactly how he handled Ensign Ro (or she handled him) in "Conundrum."

I forgot about that.

 

[Snaploud]

What I would have liked to hear from Starfleet Command:

Message to acting Captain Riker: we are promoting Data to full Commander and giving him the position of first officer of the Enterprise. We have a couple captaincy openings for you. We also have an opening as first officer of a tug boat. It's up to you.

Well said!

Well said. We're going to dispose of Riker because of his lack of ambition for an android whose very nature omits ambition.

The 'first officer of the flag ship' position is probably one of the best places in the Federation to train future captains. It was a waste for Riker to stay in that position for so long.

 

[BillJ]

The 'first officer of the flag ship' position is probably one of the best places in the Federation to train future captains.

And for the producers to train stars for future spin-offs.

 

[Mirror_Barclay]

One of the things I love about Trek is exploring a whole new crew. It hasn't happened in far too long... but anyway.

Moving O'Brien doesn't count against that - his role on TNG was relatively minimal. And I think moving one main character is probably fine (although I was never a big fan of Worf). But moving Riker and Troi to Voyager would have been a mistake.

Moving Riker to DS9? It could have worked. It would have been problematic if they'd later added Worf.

As for how to handle it on TNG - well, I wonder why a group of ships couldn't work? After all, the Enterprise had over 1,000 people. BSG had a whole fleet. Tons of shows take place on modern day Earth, with 6 billion people or so. Yet shows still select a manageable cast of characters. Having two ships go forth, for redundancy, needn't require any extra characters.

Make Troi XO on Enterprise, so she doesn't report directly to Riker, and Data Riker's XO.