So the Regeneration limit jumps from 12 to 507...? SJA SPOILERS

[Candlelight]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/10/26/the-doctor-now-has-five-hundred-and-seven-regenerations/

Was this a joke as part of SJA or is there some magical new trick the Time Lord hasn't shared with us yet...?

 

[Kelso]

BAHAHAHA! Perfect solution to the regeneration "problem."

I love RTD.

 

[Bones2]

The Doctor was lying because RTD is a rubbish writer. If you make the Doctor immortal, then you ruin him.

 

[Starkers]

See the thing is you and RTD have things in common, you both throw out contentious comments jus to get a rise

That's all RTD was doing here, like I said elsewhere, maybe the Doctor was being serious, or maybe he was just doing it to wind Clyde up--and by extention wind fandom up.

I don't say this too often, but nice one Russell

 

[diankra]

The Doctor was lying because RTD is a rubbish writer. If you make the Doctor immortal, then you ruin him.

While I tend to agree (about ultimate mortality making him more interesting), the Doctor was immortal until Deadly Assassin introduced the 12-regen limit (at least according to Troughton in the War Games - we can live forever, barring accidents. And the scripted assumption in Power of the Daleks was that this wasn't the Doctor's first change).

Bob Holmes introduced the regen limit because he needed it as a plot point in Assassin, even though it contradicted the mind-bending scene in a story run earlier that year, which substatially rewritten by him.
It's doubtful that he intended it to become this big shibboleth, but fandom was coming into being at the time.

 

[Bones2]

See the thing is you and RTD have things in common, you both throw out contentious comments jus to get a rise

That's all RTD was doing here, like I said elsewhere, maybe the Doctor was being serious, or maybe he was just doing it to wind Clyde up--and by extention wind fandom up.

I don't say this too often, but nice one Russell

Yes, well done Russell for once again showing your complete contempt for the fandom that means there was a Doctor Who for you to come and ruin in the first place. Bravo.

The Doctor was lying because RTD is a rubbish writer. If you make the Doctor immortal, then you ruin him.

While I tend to agree (about ultimate mortality making him more interesting), the Doctor was immortal until Deadly Assassin introduced the 12-regen limit (at least according to Troughton in the War Games - we can live forever, barring accidents. And the scripted assumption in Power of the Daleks was that this wasn't the Doctor's first change).

Bob Holmes introduced the regen limit because he needed it as a plot point in Assassin, even though it contradicted the mind-bending scene in a story run earlier that year, which substatially rewritten by him.
It's doubtful that he intended it to become this big shibboleth, but fandom was coming into being at the time.

It's true that regeneration was ill defined until The Deadly Assassin, but it's now long been set in stone how many lives he has. As for the scene in Morbius, that's very much open to interpretation. Especially since it was stated in The Three Doctors that they were the first three.

 

[Davros]

As for the scene in Morbius, that's very much open to interpretation. Especially since it was stated in The Three Doctors that they were the first three.

I can only see those other faces in Morbius as being his earlier incarnations and not those of the Doctor.

 

[Starkers]

See the thing is you and RTD have things in common, you both throw out contentious comments jus to get a rise

That's all RTD was doing here, like I said elsewhere, maybe the Doctor was being serious, or maybe he was just doing it to wind Clyde up--and by extention wind fandom up.

I don't say this too often, but nice one Russell

Yes, well done Russell for once again showing your complete contempt for the fandom that means there was a Doctor Who for you to come and ruin in the first place. Bravo.

Because fandom wouldn't have contempt for him, right?

Fact is fandom kept Who alive, but if the new show had to rely on fandom for its viewership it wouldn't have got past Ecclston.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Was this intended to be literal?

Spoiler: spoiler

i.e. the bit about Ian and Barbara being "eternal and unaging"?

 

[Bones2]

See the thing is you and RTD have things in common, you both throw out contentious comments jus to get a rise

That's all RTD was doing here, like I said elsewhere, maybe the Doctor was being serious, or maybe he was just doing it to wind Clyde up--and by extention wind fandom up.

I don't say this too often, but nice one Russell

Yes, well done Russell for once again showing your complete contempt for the fandom that means there was a Doctor Who for you to come and ruin in the first place. Bravo.

Because fandom wouldn't have contempt for him, right?

Fact is fandom kept Who alive, but if the new show had to rely on fandom for its viewership it wouldn't have got past Ecclston.

The majority of fandom (especially the GB set) bent over and took it whenever RTD called them bastards or ming-mongs or virgins or whatever. Makes the sycophants who hang around there shouting down any criticism all the most nauseating.

As for viewership, of course if it was only fans watching then it wouldn't have got past series one. But many people are idiots who'll watch anything (X-Factor, Ant and Dec...all that shite), so claiming that means RTD must be objectively good is as much of a fallacy as any ad populum argument. Silence in the Library got fewer viewers than Time Flight (if memory serves); doesn't mean Time Flight is better.

As for the scene in Morbius, that's very much open to interpretation. Especially since it was stated in The Three Doctors that they were the first three.

I can only see those other faces in Morbius as being his earlier incarnations and not those of the Doctor.

Or the Doctor's false pretending to have earlier lives is what made the fishbowl spark. There's a load of ideas out there, which is why anyone citing it as meaning there are pre-Hartnell Doctors (especially considering The Three Doctors) is tiresome and wrong.

 

[Pauln6]

As for the scene in Morbius, that's very much open to interpretation. Especially since it was stated in The Three Doctors that they were the first three.

I can only see those other faces in Morbius as being his earlier incarnations and not those of the Doctor.

Or the Doctor's false pretending to have earlier lives is what made the fishbowl spark. There's a load of ideas out there, which is why anyone citing it as meaning there are pre-Hartnell Doctors (especially considering The Three Doctors) is tiresome and wrong.

All they need is a throwaway line in an episode where exposure some exotic stufff gives him a life boost but much more fun I think would be for his quest for further regenerations to be an Indy Jones style adventure, delving into the lost lore of the Time Lords. They gave the Master extra regenerations after all (he's now on 16 or 14 if we exclude the two times he effectively possessed other people's bodies).

I'm definitely not in favour of another hand-waved ret-con.

 

[DimesDan]

it was the Doctor pulling Clydes leg, no more, no less.

 

[Bones2]

I can only see those other faces in Morbius as being his earlier incarnations and not those of the Doctor.

Or the Doctor's false pretending to have earlier lives is what made the fishbowl spark. There's a load of ideas out there, which is why anyone citing it as meaning there are pre-Hartnell Doctors (especially considering The Three Doctors) is tiresome and wrong.

All they need is a throwaway line in an episode where exposure some exotic stufff gives him a life boost but much more fun I think would be for his quest for further regenerations to be an Indy Jones style adventure, delving into the lost lore of the Time Lords. They gave the Master extra regenerations after all (he's now on 16 or 14 if we exclude the two times he effectively possessed other people's bodies).

I'm definitely not in favour of another hand-waved ret-con.

I've got a fantastic idea for a story that would get the Doctor more lives, but not in an "oh no I dying, but I'm now a cowardly hypocrite who doesn't want to die despite lecturing Lumic for doing the same thing". Crucially, he wouldn't be immortal either, because that ruins it entirely. But there's a good story to be told in the Doctor getting more lives, and not in the "Doctor finding the magic crystal of Zorg" way RTD once suggested in an interview with Richard and Judy (the talentless media luvvie hack); if no one else can think of a better way than that or just saying "oh by the way I've got 507 lives now", then I should be running the show.

 

[the Dagman]

I believe that what happened was at the end of the Time War the Doctor must have received the sum total remaining regenerations of the Time Lords who likely helped him end the war. For their solution to work, all the Time Lords had to go. The Doctor was the exception to the rule, as he was at the end of his eighth life and that incarnation was "half human" as stated in the movie. The half humanity of that Doctor exploited a loophole in the "no more Time Lords" rule of their solution. And sealing them off resulted in serious enough damage that the Doctor regenerated into number 9. Thus why Eccelson's Doctor was the one carrying the raw guilt for the deed.

This keeps all continuity intact. A Time Lord can live forever, barring any catastrophic damage. Then they regenerate. Normally, Time Lords are allotted 12 regenerations which they are likely given as they graduate from the Academy. But they can be granted more, as they offered to do for the Master in The Five Doctors and DID to draft him into the Time War. And then the Doctor was given all the regenerations of his co-horts in the Time War as they were sealed off since they weren't going to be using them. So three here, eight from there, there's another six, eventually it all added up to 507.

This is actually part of what makes science fiction fun. To make some things make sense, you have to connect the dots of what information you do have and fill in the blanks with your imagination.

 

[Bones2]

^
I don't like that. Besides, 507 is too damn high; he may as well be immortal. Though I agree that the Eighth Doctor's actions would have been both what ended the Time War and caused him to regenerate. Gives my second favourite Doctor more to do.

 

[diankra]

As for the scene in Morbius, that's very much open to interpretation. Especially since it was stated in The Three Doctors that they were the first three.

I can only see those other faces in Morbius as being his earlier incarnations and not those of the Doctor.

But that's retconning; without wanting to reopen an old argument, the logic of the scene is that they're pre-Hartnell Doctors, and as an eight year old that's what I thought at the time. I was rather confused when Deadly Assassin came along later that year, but also accepted the 'new fact', as most of fandom did.

 

[Professor Zoom]

It's a throw away line. Probably meant to get fanboy panties in a twist.

Jeez.

Can't the Doctor make a JOKE?

 

[Bones2]

As for the scene in Morbius, that's very much open to interpretation. Especially since it was stated in The Three Doctors that they were the first three.

I can only see those other faces in Morbius as being his earlier incarnations and not those of the Doctor.

But that's retconning; without wanting to reopen an old argument, the logic of the scene is that they're pre-Hartnell Doctors, and as an eight year old that's what I thought at the time. I was rather confused when Deadly Assassin came along later that year, but also accepted the 'new fact', as most of fandom did.

We know from The Three Doctors that they were the first three, so Morbius' contradiction of that (and it was intended by the production team to be actual previous incarnations, but this was before VHS and being able to see old stories again) can be rationalised in various ways as said above. The Deadly Assassin certainly didn't contradict the established canon of The Three Doctors, and the 13 lives thing has stood for a long time, so RTD flippantly dismissing it with one line and thinking he's a genius is clearly not appropriate. It was just to get publicity for his pretty average childrens story.

 

[Saga]

it was the Doctor pulling Clydes leg, no more, no less.

agreed. i don't see what the big deal is.

 

[Candlelight]

It's a throw away line. Probably meant to get fanboy panties in a twist.

Judging by this thread, maybe it worked!