Missed Oppertunities in Voyager
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
First off, that's two statements.
Statement A: "One ship shouldn't be able to kill a Borg cube on its own."
Statement B: "One ship shouldn't be able to have such a big impact on the rest of the galaxy."
You keep trying to lump them together as one, but they're completely different. If someone says Statement A it doesn't mean they believe Statement B, and Statement B is what you're claiming is a major criticism. Nobody denied that Statement A was a criticism, so it's not relevant.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708969/usercomments <- Where are the major criticisms?
Killing a Borg Cube IS part of having a big impact on the rest of the Galaxy. VOY having any impact on the Borg Collective is a big impact on the rest of the Galaxy.
If they can go through "Year of Hell" and then have a big impact by destroying the Timeship and saving numerous species from time oblivion, then there's nothing wrong with what happened with the Borg since they already had done big epic stuff all on their own.
Of course, it all comes down to the double standard: No one cared about what epic stuff VOY did with its own creations because the thought was "Okay, they invented them they can do what they want with them." while the Borg were an overpowered TNG creation and nothing VOY could do with them would be okay with the audience. DS9 did all kinds of stuff with the Cardassians, Klingons, Ferengi and Romulans but no one cared there either because of the general DS9 double standard on everything.
If they can go through "Year of Hell" and then have a big impact by destroying the Timeship and saving numerous species from time oblivion, then there's nothing wrong with what happened with the Borg since they already had done big epic stuff all on their own.
Of course, it all comes down to the double standard: No one cared about what epic stuff VOY did with its own creations because the thought was "Okay, they invented them they can do what they want with them." while the Borg were an overpowered TNG creation and nothing VOY could do with them would be okay with the audience. DS9 did all kinds of stuff with the Cardassians, Klingons, Ferengi and Romulans but no one cared there either because of the general DS9 double standard on everything.
Oh christ, here we go again about the hatedom and double standards that don't exist. I know arguing against this inanity is pointless, so I'll ask if you'd please go make your own thread for this crap instead of scaring posters away from yet another potentially interesting Voyager thread.
Voyager does an epic story with its own aliens where they fight off a vastly superior foe and have a huge impact on the Galaxy = Audience is okay with it although they don't like VOY creating its own aliens to use.
Voyager does an epic story with aliens from other Trek shows where the have a huge impact on the Galaxy = Audience hates it before it airs.
The general reception they got from all their Borg stories makes it clear the audience was just out to hate any attempt VOY made at using prior aliens that weren't VOY originals even though they don't like any of VOY's originals anyways.
So they were screwed either way. There's not much in the way of missed opportunity when the negative reaction to everything was inevitable.
Voyager does an epic story with aliens from other Trek shows where the have a huge impact on the Galaxy = Audience hates it before it airs.
The general reception they got from all their Borg stories makes it clear the audience was just out to hate any attempt VOY made at using prior aliens that weren't VOY originals even though they don't like any of VOY's originals anyways.
So they were screwed either way. There's not much in the way of missed opportunity when the negative reaction to everything was inevitable.
This thread was a missed opportunity thanks to your inevitable negative reaction to every suggestion posted in it.
"No, that would never have worked because everyone would have hated it. That too. Major criticism. Double standard. See? Voyager's audience is totally unpleasable."
I wanted more Nancy Hower.
I wanted her to Hook up with Neelix and I wanted to see her in a brawl and a phaser fight... Actually, I would have loved to have seen her 8 months pregnant kicking the shit out of kullah and punching Seska in the throat again and again until she pukes all over herself.
I don't believe anyone, even Anwar could pooh pooh that thematic direction?
I wanted her to Hook up with Neelix and I wanted to see her in a brawl and a phaser fight... Actually, I would have loved to have seen her 8 months pregnant kicking the shit out of kullah and punching Seska in the throat again and again until she pukes all over herself.
I don't believe anyone, even Anwar could pooh pooh that thematic direction?
Yeah? Cool.
Anyways, the missed opportunities wouldn't have been so missed if they hadn't always been on the move. A lot of plot points opened up couldn't easily be revisited, but the audience would have to be open to the idea of recurring aliens showing up multiple times so they'd have to get over stuff like the Kazon and just accept that VOY wants to have the same aliens show up a lot.
Anyways, the missed opportunities wouldn't have been so missed if they hadn't always been on the move. A lot of plot points opened up couldn't easily be revisited, but the audience would have to be open to the idea of recurring aliens showing up multiple times so they'd have to get over stuff like the Kazon and just accept that VOY wants to have the same aliens show up a lot.
Again, that's not the point of the thread. It's not "Why Voyager missed so many opportunities".
What I was hoping for the most was an arc toward the end of the series. Voyager on the run. Something along the lines of Year of Hell except Year of Hell should've been at least an entire season and instead of resetting, Voyager should've suffered great losses, faced major morale issues and then barely come out alive by the end of it. I would've loved it if Year of Hell happened in season 7 so that by the end of the season they manage to find a way to get back to Earth and when they get there, they're all beat up, bruised and barely alive. I would've loved to see a major character die at the end. I know I'd be sad and angry regardless but imagine Harry Kim dying? The man who wanted to get back home so badly, who dreamed of eating his mother's homecooked meals daily and then dying right before getting there. it would've been tragic. And it would've been real. It also would've added something to the otherwise bland character. Anyone watched Battlestar Galactica? (SPOILER) Remember the Galactica at the end? Practically falling apart, the crew's morale shattered? (end of SPOILER) I wish the ship at least had some visible exterior damage.
I also wish they had gotten back to earth about 3 episodes before the final episode. I would've loved to see them home. How Seven adjusts. Janeway's first meeting with Starfleet Command. Every single Captain made some questionable decisions and Janeway is no different. So I'm sure she'd have to discuss SOME issues at least.
I always wanted an episode about the history of the Borg. Their origins. They could've done an episode where they come across the planet where it all started. It would've been a great season cliffhanger. And much better than Unimatrix Zero. There weren't that many GREAT Borg episodes but this really could've been something.
Then there's that maquis/federation rebellion/mutiny. I would've loved to see an episode about a real mutiny at the beginning of the show. I understand they all have to work together, that makes perfect sense. But it couldn't have been THAT easy.
I love the show but these are the only things I really wished were done a bit different.
I also wish they had gotten back to earth about 3 episodes before the final episode. I would've loved to see them home. How Seven adjusts. Janeway's first meeting with Starfleet Command. Every single Captain made some questionable decisions and Janeway is no different. So I'm sure she'd have to discuss SOME issues at least.
I always wanted an episode about the history of the Borg. Their origins. They could've done an episode where they come across the planet where it all started. It would've been a great season cliffhanger. And much better than Unimatrix Zero. There weren't that many GREAT Borg episodes but this really could've been something.
Then there's that maquis/federation rebellion/mutiny. I would've loved to see an episode about a real mutiny at the beginning of the show. I understand they all have to work together, that makes perfect sense. But it couldn't have been THAT easy.
I love the show but these are the only things I really wished were done a bit different.
Character development. Harry, for example, was an Ensign for 7 years and he didn't change at all as a person either. Chakotay, Tuvok, Neelix, Janeway, none of those went through any changes.
But maybe I'm just spoiled by DS9. Character development on TNG was almost about as dull as on VOY. Maybe that's the nature of a series set on a spaceship that encounters the problem of the week and then simply moves on.
But maybe I'm just spoiled by DS9. Character development on TNG was almost about as dull as on VOY. Maybe that's the nature of a series set on a spaceship that encounters the problem of the week and then simply moves on.
No Harry did change. In the beginning he wanted to grow up and seen the world but after Nightingale we discovered that he was reserved to flounder and rot as an ensign because the world was too big for him.
Well, the Galactica was ALWAYS falling apart and the crew's morale was ALWAYS shattered. Frankly, given all the insane stuff Starfleet crews go through in TOS and TNG I'd expect them to be a bit on the razor's edge but not to have their morale shattered.
A missed opportunity would've been for the ship to have its' warp drive to get damaged so that they'd have no choice but to travel very slowly for most of the series. This would've easily allowed them to flesh out the recurring aliens and give the DQ a good fleshing out in the multiple alien species and how they interact with one another. Then at the end of the show just have them find a random wormhole or something to get them home.
A missed opportunity would've been for the ship to have its' warp drive to get damaged so that they'd have no choice but to travel very slowly for most of the series. This would've easily allowed them to flesh out the recurring aliens and give the DQ a good fleshing out in the multiple alien species and how they interact with one another. Then at the end of the show just have them find a random wormhole or something to get them home.
I'm on season two in my re-watch-through and, other than the Borg Queen, I don't think Janeway ever came up against a female adversary. Every hostile ship is captained by a guy, every evil alien leader on a planet is male. I'd have loved to see her pitted against an evenly matched female opponent (hence my mirror idea earlier, probably).
They should have stayed on the 37's planet and built a fleet.
After the ad-break, they say it's 5 years later and then we see 400 hundred ships carrying 100,000 human beings including Amelia, heading out towards Earth.
After the ad-break, they say it's 5 years later and then we see 400 hundred ships carrying 100,000 human beings including Amelia, heading out towards Earth.
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