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"Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offshore"

Re: NZ TV Interview - PJ is PISSED OFF!!!!!!

^ Tell me about it. We went there in March '09 based soley on the fact that the films were shot there. Prior to that I had NO interest(sorry Candlelight, I am a theme park junkie!)in the country.

Having been there I can tell you there is a certain "magic" in the place. When you're standing on the top of Mt Sunday(Edoras)and your guide(dressed as Gandalf and is a DEAD ringer!)points out a mountain range across the distant valley and tells you it is actually five miles(in the old language)away and you suddenly realize you have lost all sense of distance and perspective, you know you are in a special place. The most amazing thing is, at that place in particular, there is NOBODY around for MILES.

It is a spooky, eerie, wonderful and magical feeling that is hard to explain.

I just cannot imagine another place having the same feeling.
 
Re: NZ TV Interview - PJ is PISSED OFF!!!!!!

Jesus.. PJ is really mad at the unions for potentially screwing up the whole movie and putting hundreds if not thousands out of work or at least depriving them of a good income for a time.

This is why i can't stand unions for the most part.. to me it's just about power plays and many union bosses would rather risk unemployment or severe pay losses of their members than to back down because they fancy themselves as sort of powerful and on eye level with the industry when in fact, due to globalization the industry can move elsewhere (as it is now very likely with the Hobbit) and give a huge fuck off to the unions.
 
Re: NZ TV Interview - PJ is PISSED OFF!!!!!!

FPAlpha said:
...to me it's just about power plays and many union bosses would rather risk unemployment or severe pay losses of their members than to back down because they fancy themselves as sort of powerful...
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Yeah, unions are just a thousand times less evil and corrupt than the megacorporations and wealthy stooges who've nearly destroyed the economies of the West over the last few years...and there is no effective counterbalance that works other than unions and government (and government needs the pressure from organized workers).

That's all.
 
Re: NZ TV Interview - PJ is PISSED OFF!!!!!!

My partner who is a union organizer and education officer thanks you!

It's actually been really interesting talking to him this past few weeks as this has all unfolded, getting his take on the "other side of the fence".

When I told him that actors were going to contact WBs to tell them they'd sign contracts GUARANTEEING no industrial action for the shoot's duration he was HORRIFIED. He said this completely undermines their position and is akin to the global multinational sacking the $17 per hour guys and bringing in the Asian/Indian who'll work for 50c per day......except this is the worker doing it to THEMSELVES!
 
Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

Sci said:
Timby said:
- The MEAA admitted to doing this solely to unionize all New Zealand film productions.
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All film productions should be unionized.
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You missed the part about how the New Zealand Actors Equity represents a very, very small percentage of New Zealand actors, and is actually controlled by an Australian corporation (MEAA) that's trying to leverage its services in order to get a bigger piece of the New Zealand film production pie (a lot of productions have been moving from Australia to New Zealand), and furthermore, the MEAA attempted to strong-arm the producers of The Hobbit into a collective bargaining agreement, which is prohibited under New Zealand law. The very last straw was when the MEAA and Jackson had agreed to meet earlier this week to discuss terms, and then the MEAA backed out at the very last second.

This isn't the first time that Robyn Malcolm (who organized the actors' boycott of The Hobbit) has done this. She pulled a similar stunt on the last season of Outrageous Fortune, and it wasn't until the producers said, "Welp, guess we can't afford to film this season, then," that she rolled over (because she's the star of the show). She clearly doesn't care about the careers of other actors, though. :lol:

Warner Bros. and Peter Jackson aren't looking to move the production because they hate unions (they've already started talks with the unions in Ireland). They're convinced that after the MEAA pulled a stunt like this -- raising a major shit-fit and inciting other unions to tell their actors not to work on the movies, and doing so only a few weeks before filming was to start -- the union's behavior indicates a pattern of instability, and there's no guarantee that another insane move wouldn't be made once filming started, which would cost untold amounts of money. The two films are budgeted at $500 million. If all that money is committed, and then MEAA pulls another ridiculous stunt, it would be financially catastrophic.

The long and the short of it is that Warner Bros. and Peter Jackson have very little confidence in the union's stability, and by extension, the stability of New Zealand for a long-term shoot. I don't blame them.

Honestly, I can't help but feel even more pessimistic about production of The Hobbit now. With the hell they've been through trying to get this flick off the ground for so many years, I can't imagine Peter Jackson feels very passionate about the project now ... if he isn't already completely soured on it.

Look at what happened with Walt Disney -- he was obsessed with making his early animated films the best they could possibly be, but after the one-two punch of his animators striking and World War II, his love of animation was nearly broken.

This isn't a dream project for Jackson like The Lord of the Rings was. Remember, he never, ever wanted to direct it. At this point it's just a financial obligation. Christ, Jackson just looks so damned tired. :(
 
Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

"Good God, he looks like he's been fighting a war."

That was my first thought, and then I realized he has.
 
Re: NZ TV Interview - PJ is PISSED OFF!!!!!!

And what happens when the production is moved and the jobs go away? With unions, the actors really just trade one slave master for another; the actors could lose work because the union thinks it's better for the actors to have no work than work at an "unacceptable" pay rate.

The entire thing is disgusting. If the production does move, will the actors revolt against their union? Shouldn't the union be torn down if they lose this game of chicken? After all, what is the benefit of a union if it's only function is to make sure you don't work.
 
Re: NZ TV Interview - PJ is PISSED OFF!!!!!!

TemporalFlux said:
With unions, the actors really just trade one slave master for another; the actors could lose work because the union thinks it's better for the actors to have no work than work at an "unacceptable" pay rate.
Click to expand...

Bullshit. This is the logic of corporate threats and extortion. Solidarity in the face of this kind of nonsense is what has made living conditions for workers any better than barely tolerable in my country over the last century.
 
Re: NZ TV Interview - PJ is PISSED OFF!!!!!!

Hollywood has already outsourced film production to places like New Zealand in a union-busting effort - California's entertainment unions were too powerful and demanding that their people not be treated like indentured servants, the horror. So fuck them, there goes their jobs. But of course, what was outsourced once can be outsourced again once the local unions start to get wise to the situation. It's a never-ending race to the bottom.
 
Re: NZ TV Interview - PJ is PISSED OFF!!!!!!

Dennis said:
TemporalFlux said:
With unions, the actors really just trade one slave master for another; the actors could lose work because the union thinks it's better for the actors to have no work than work at an "unacceptable" pay rate.
Click to expand...

Bullshit. This is the logic of corporate threats and extortion. Solidarity in the face of this kind of nonsense is what has made living conditions for workers any better than barely tolerable in my country over the last century.
Click to expand...

So just answer me this.. is it better to have a job that pays slightly less than usual or having no job at all because your union drove off the employer with their demands and refused to back down?

Unions are very important.. i've worked for companies with weak unions and weak worker representation and i was not happy about some of the aspects there but in my view sometimes it just comes down to a pissing match out of principle and as i said earlier globalization has given employers the sometimes easy option to just move elsewhere where they can do business more easily than to slog through for ages with unions and other stuff.

Personally i've been unemployed for a year some time ago (prior to the financial crisis) and that time sucked so much i can't begin to describe it (and i live in Germany with a comparetively good social system) so any work for me is welcome.. i'd rather work for subpar payment than not work at all.
 
Re: NZ TV Interview - PJ is PISSED OFF!!!!!!

unions treat corporations in the same ruthless self-interest way that corporations treat everyone else.
 
Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

Timby said:
Christ, Jackson just looks so damned tired. :(
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This is just ridiculous. At the very end of the video, when the interviewer is speaking with representatives of the actors, one of the representatives is going on about how terrible they feel about the whole situation and how they don't want The Hobbit to leave New Zealand, and saying, "This whole situation could have been avoided with a meeting!"

Um...there was going to be a meeting, lady. Your side backed out at the last minute!
 
Re: NZ TV Interview - PJ is PISSED OFF!!!!!!

FPAlpha said:
Dennis said:
TemporalFlux said:
With unions, the actors really just trade one slave master for another; the actors could lose work because the union thinks it's better for the actors to have no work than work at an "unacceptable" pay rate.
Click to expand...

Bullshit. This is the logic of corporate threats and extortion. Solidarity in the face of this kind of nonsense is what has made living conditions for workers any better than barely tolerable in my country over the last century.
Click to expand...

So just answer me this.. is it better to have a job that pays slightly less than usual or having no job at all because your union drove off the employer with their demands and refused to back down?
Click to expand...

Third option: Unionize the workers at whatever other location your employer has moved to so that they'll have no choice but to give in to your union's demands.

You know, sort of like what Australia's union is doing with New Zealand's actors.
 
Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

A thought has occurred to me. If the movies are moved to Europe, then perhaps Christopher Lee will reconsider reprising his role as Saruman with the production closer to home?
 
Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

I think he's in this one.

As for unions, well they have their place. I've been a member of a couple. But sometimes they fuck up. They're willing to take a stand over some stupid thing, and they're willing to lose jobs over it. One thing that always pisses me off is that my fate is tied to people who don't share my interests. Since they have an problem, it means that I have a problem, even though I've never met them and we work in entirely different jobs with entirely different workplace issues.
 
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Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

The two movies are rumored to expand on Gandalf's mysterious absences (in order to stretch the story across two movies), which Tolkien later explained to be him going off to meet the White Council (which included Saruman and Galadriel) to fight off a resurgent Sauron, who at the time was based in a fortress in southern Mirkwood.
 
Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

'Hobbit' Rescue Meeting Set for Tuesday

WELLINGTON, New Zealand—Prime Minister John Key will meet film executives from Time Warner Inc. on Tuesday in a last-ditch effort to keep the two-part, US$500 million "Lord of the Rings" prequel, "The Hobbit," in New Zealand, a government spokeswoman said.


The talks are scheduled for Wellington, New Zealand's capital, according to the spokeswoman, who declined to specify who would attend on behalf of the film producer. The prime minister wants to persuade Warner not to move the film out of the country over a labor dispute.
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Is it too much to hope for this last ditch effort will work?
 
Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

On Channel Ten news tonight they showed a massive rally somewhere in NZ with children dressed as hobbits and assorted placards that read variations of "NZ IS Middle Earth!!!"

It was really nice to see people coming out in protest and I think NZer's SHOULD have the proprietary feeling toward the films and Middle Earth, since a lot of the world now sees NZ as Tolkien's world.

They SHOULD fight for it!

Now where's Candlelight? Or was he also at that rally?
 
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