Deep Space Nine Relaunch

[kkozoriz1]

Umm you do realize that in the amount of time you're talking about we've only had one novel in each of the series you're talking about. As for what the stories have been about, you have to consider the fact that Destiny was a big deal and they're going to need a few books to deal with it. The whole universe has been changed they need time to establish what things will be like now. Hell, even in the Typhon Pact books the different ships are off doing their own thing, Aventine is helping Bashir, the E-E is at Andor, Titan is going to be off dealing with Haranrar (I think I spelled that right) a new planet and species we've never seen (but, oh no I guess they're not dealing new worlds or civilisations were they), and we don't know what the Defiant will be up to if it's involved. And not only that, but they are dealing with entirely different members of the Typhon Pact.

As for characters crossing series, they're guest characters who are helping move that series and it's characters stories. So it's not like they're completely taking over the series, and if they do then it is not marked as that series, it's simply Star Trek, like in Destiny.

That's true that Destiny will take some time to clean up. That's part of the problem. The number of books we're getting is down and a large part of the ones we get are concerned with cleaning up from the previous series or setting up the next one. The books still aren't off doing their own thing except for Voyager (for the most part), they're serving the Typhon Pact storyline.

If Abrams decides next year to allow the NuTrek books to be published that will remove even more slots fro the schedule, just like pulling them this year left a big gaping hole.

 

[flemm]

If Abrams decides next year to allow the NuTrek books to be published that will remove even more slots fro the schedule, just like pulling them this year left a big gaping hole.

Realistically, though, the market for this stuff is going to dry up at some point. It's going to become more profitable to publish other things. There will probably continue to be less and less TNG-era Trek Lit published as the years go by. It's with that in mind that we need to evaluate what is being done. Events like Destiny generate interest and therefore are probably the best approach to keeping these storylines alive as long as possible. There are plenty of other venues for Trek stories that don't involve these characters or that don't try to tie-in to established continuity.

 

[David R. George III]

Not sure why some people are giving you grief for having personal reading preferences with respect to Trek lit. As should be obvious to all, you should read what appeals to you and avoid what doesn't. And of course, you are perfectly entitled to hope that the novels evolve in a way that mostly suits you. Who wouldn't?

 

[kkozoriz1]

The novel series has previously been similar to the TV series, stand alones and multi issue arcs with minimal crossover between series. I can see how Destiny had to involve all the various series just on the scale of it. I'm just concerned that more emphasis is being given to having the series tell a larger story rather than letting each follow a more independent course. It seems that I'm in a definite minority but that's OK.

 

[flemm]

It seems that I'm in a definite minority but that's OK.

Not necessarily as far as having personal ideals for Trek Lit is concerned. For example, I personally would have liked to have seen the DS9-R continued without interruption at about three books a year for the past four or five years. Mix in some TNG equivalents of the same caliber, the occasional TOS throwback tale, and the rest of Trek Lit can pretty much go ahead and die a swift death as far as I'm concerned

But we can hardly expect the Pocket line to cater to us personally, and there are doubtless editorial and financial realities to consider.

 

[Destructor]

Realistically, though, the market for this stuff is going to dry up at some point. It's going to become more profitable to publish other things. There will probably continue to be less and less TNG-era Trek Lit published as the years go by.

I don't know- Trek Lit sustained Trek during the 'dry years' between 69 and 79 when there was not much hope for future Trek, and it's not been that long since Nemesis and Enterprise and we've already got a new movie. The books have become a universe unto themselves- I want to read them to see how their story is going, not as a continuation of threads from a long-finished TV show. TNG has now entered the sort of 'classic' status TOS took on, so it's reasonable to think people will continue to be interested in continuing stories, just as they did and continue to do 40 years after TOS finished.

 

[flemm]

I don't know- Trek Lit sustained Trek during the 'dry years' between 69 and 79 when there was not much hope for future Trek, and it's not been that long since Nemesis and Enterprise and we've already got a new movie. The books have become a universe unto themselves- I want to read them to see how their story is going, not as a continuation of threads from a long-finished TV show. TNG has now entered the sort of 'classic' status TOS took on, so it's reasonable to think people will continue to be interested in continuing stories, just as they did and continue to do 40 years after TOS finished.

It's hard to compare our own era to seventies Trek, though, for a variety of reasons. It's not a dry spell, for one thing: there's a new movie out and soon there will be more. Regardless, I certainly look forward to reading stories about these characters for many years to come.

The point I was making isn't that Trek Lit from the TNG-era is about to die off, but rather that it needs to take care of itself as a commodity and do whatever continues to spark interest. If crossovers like Destiny spark interest, then that is the right choice, since interest in Trek Lit from this era is hardly guaranteed to remain stable indefinitely.

 

[kkozoriz1]

I don't know- Trek Lit sustained Trek during the 'dry years' between 69 and 79 when there was not much hope for future Trek, and it's not been that long since Nemesis and Enterprise and we've already got a new movie. The books have become a universe unto themselves- I want to read them to see how their story is going, not as a continuation of threads from a long-finished TV show. TNG has now entered the sort of 'classic' status TOS took on, so it's reasonable to think people will continue to be interested in continuing stories, just as they did and continue to do 40 years after TOS finished.

It's hard to compare our own era to seventies Trek, though, for a variety of reasons. It's not a dry spell, for one thing: there's a new movie out and soon there will be more. Regardless, I certainly look forward to reading stories about these characters for many years to come.

The point I was making isn't that Trek Lit from the TNG-era is about to die off, but rather that it needs to take care of itself as a commodity and do whatever continues to spark interest. If crossovers like Destiny spark interest, then that is the right choice, since interest in Trek Lit from this era is hardly guaranteed to remain stable indefinitely.

I can certainly agree that the line needs to catch people's interest. Destiny did that. For me, however, there should be some time between events. The one TNG book between Destiny and Typhon Pact was follow up to one and the epilogue led to the other.

It just occurred to me that it can be summed up as I'd rather see the crew acting rather than reacting. I'd like to see them choosing to go someplace, discover something or someone new and we learn something about our crew. The events have them reacting to outside forces. The Borg showing up. The Typhon Pact making their appearance. Things are happening to our intrepid crews, not because of them. Does that make any sense?

 

[flemm]

Does that make any sense?

Sure, I understand your point of view, and I sympathize with it to a certain extent. I prefer relatively modest Avatar-esque tie-in novels to something like Destiny (as impressive as it was in many respects), partly for the reasons you describe: the early DS9-R, for example, felt like the characters were continuing to evolve organically in an already-established universe, whereas with something like Destiny you can feel the authorial intent pushing the characters around the chessboard at the whim of the plot. For all the characters that nominally appear in Destiny, only a handful actually participate in a meaningful way as characters: Hernandez, some members of her crew, the Caeliar who falls in love with her, and Picard by his breakdown. That's about it, really. So bigger in scope is not necessarily better. But again, I think all of this type of criticism needs to be framed by the understanding that it's overall a good thing that Trek Lit from this era is being sustained at a relatively high level of quality, whatever our personal preferences may be.

 

[TerraUnam]

Well, pretty much every Trek episode could be considered 'reactive' if classified that way.

Titan is almost always a classic standalone "Planet of the Week" format, the new Typhon Pact book being somewhat of an exception. After that it'll be outward-bound again. Synthesis and Over a Torrent Sea were both standalones aside from a few nods to Destiny and Tuvok's mental health issues.

I also think that the writers have introduced slipstream as a regular element not just for Voyager but to truly move Trek onto a galactic stage. I don't know if Aventine will have any more books, but some ship could easily do a Gamma Quadrant story with slipstream or even an out-of-this-galaxy adventure. In fact I think we're coming due for an out-of-this-galaxy adventure in the not so distant future.

 

[Christopher]

I really don't think there's any reason to assume that Destiny's approach is going to be the status quo from now on. On the contrary, it was a singular event, and things have now moved on. Yes, the marketing people asked for a followup "event," hence Typhon Pact, but those books are structured like the loose crossovers of the past, four separate and self-contained stories that simply share a common element. I don't think there's any likelihood of something like Destiny being undertaken again. (If for no other reason than the sheer magnitude of such a project. Destiny was so massive that it required two editors to oversee it. Pocket's Trek line doesn't have two editors anymore.)

 

[kkozoriz1]

Titan is one of my two favorite Trek lit series right now, the other being Vanguard. The planet of the week, especially when handled well like in Orion's Hounds or Synthesis can tell an interesting story that doesn't require referencing something that happened in an earlier book or another series. The characters can have arcs that continue from book to book, Keru for instance, but the plot doesn't necessarily have to.

Slipstream opens up a whole new world of possibilities which is why I'm a bit disappointed to see the Aventine's first big story having it act as a support craft for Ezri's former boyfriend. I know that that's going strictly off the back cover copy and taking it down to the very minimum. It's similar to how I felt about the first two Titan novels even though I love Martin & Mangles work. The first book was a sequel to Nemesis and the second was a sequel to the Sulu Lost era book. The ship is designed as a long range explorer. Let's go see something new!

 

[JD]

I know what you're trying to say, I just don't agree, and it seems to me like you're making alot of assumptions based off of very little evidence. You keep talking the books we've gotten over the past couple years, but so far we've only gotten 1 non-series specific, 1 TNG, 2 Voy (during most of which Voy was off doing it's own their thing,) and two Titan (both of which had the ship back off exploring new worlds and meeting new civilisations). So I guess to me it just seems way to early to be making the complaints that you are.

 

[kkozoriz1]

I'm more than willing to give the Typhon pact a chance. It sounds interesting. I just hope that one or two of the series take place a bit more on the fringes. Let Picard worry more about the Pact. Let Titan and DS9 roam a bit further off the leash.

Part of the problem with the books is that by the time a book is on the shelf the follow up is usually being written if not undergoing editing, etc. Maybe I am overreacting. Maybe I'm spot on. The continuing arc of DS9-R was such a high point that that sort of storytelling is missed all the more. We shall see.

 

[JD]

The impression I got after Destiny was that once all of this Typhon Pact stuff was established they would go back to more stand alone type stuff. Of course I could be mistaken or the plans could change, but if you look at what's coming out next year it does look like we're seeing a lot more standalone than we've gotten lately.

 

[Therin of Andor]

It occurred to me, in the early days of ST novels that the best chance of learning more about barely-seen-but-potentially-interesting minor characters is to use them in tandem with the more popular main characters. eg. Kevin Riley is explored in "The Galactic Whirlpool". David Gerrold could have invented a who new character, but using Riley pleases the Riley fans and expands that character.

Mr Kyle probably can't carry a whole novel, but if he is reunited with his old shipmates, then we could see him again. It satisfies the few diehard Kyle fans and gives TOS fans a new TOS adventure. Carolyn Palamas probably can't carry a whole novel, but if she is reunited with her old shipmates, then we could see her again. It satisfies the few diehard Palamas fans and gives TOS fans a new TOS adventure.

A whole novel focused on Joanna McCoy was strengthened by adding the Enterprise crew (and her Dad). Ditto a whole novel on McCoy's ex-wife. The exploration of Ceti Alpha VI, post-ST II, was made stronger when it was Kirk and Chekov who go back there rather than a new, unknown Starfleet ship, captain and crew.

It's unlikely we'd ever get a whole book set on Andor. However, if it's to be visited by Shar & Prynn, or Picard & Shar, then that book becomes more commercially viable. I'd expect that an ENT novel set on Andor would feature Shran. A TOS book set on Andor would probably feature Shras.

In the DS9 TV series, Jadzia Dax could have teamed up with three unknown Klingons, but how much fun that all three Klingons once battled wits and phasers with Kirk? The episode pleased Dax and DS9 fans, but also TOS fans and TOS Klingon fans.

Every time some says, why wasn't that character an all-new character, someone else will ask why the position couldn't have been filled by an old favourite we've barely got to know canonically.

 

[Christopher]

The impression I got after Destiny was that once all of this Typhon Pact stuff was established they would go back to more stand alone type stuff.

The Typhon Pact stuff is pretty standalone. The four books are separate adventures set at different times, featuring different crews dealing with different aliens. Yes, all those aliens are part of the Typhon Pact, but the thing I think some people haven't yet figured out about the Pact is that it isn't a single storyline -- it's simply the new astropolitical status quo. Even the standalone books from now on are going to be in a world where the political lines have been redrawn, where things are different than they were before.

By analogy, the Khitomer Accords changed the astropolitical landscape by making the Federation and the Klingons allies instead of enemies. So books set after the Accords represent a different political landscape, and books dealing with the Klingons reflect their changed status. But that doesn't mean those books about the Klingons are part of some ongoing "Khitomer Accords Saga." They're just individual stories reflecting a changed setting.

Okay, there's a little more unity to the Pact books than that, I gather. But they're not so much telling a single unified story as telling four distinct stories that develop and explore the ramifications of this new astropolitical landscape. And they're using the concept of the Pact as an opportunity to do books spotlighting alien cultures that have been underdeveloped in the past, such as the Gorn, Breen, and Tzenkethi.

 

[kkozoriz1]

It occurred to me, in the early days of ST novels that the best chance of learning more about barely-seen-but-potentially-interesting minor characters is to use them in tandem with the more popular main characters. eg. Kevin Riley is explored in "The Galactic Whirlpool". David Gerrold could have invented a who new character, but using Riley pleases the Riley fans and expands that character.

Mr Kyle probably can't carry a whole novel, but if he is reunited with his old shipmates, then we could see him again. It satisfies the few diehard Kyle fans and gives TOS fans a new TOS adventure. Carolyn Palamas probably can't carry a whole novel, but if she is reunited with her old shipmates, then we could see her again. It satisfies the few diehard Palamas fans and gives TOS fans a new TOS adventure.

A whole novel focused on Joanna McCoy was strengthened by adding the Enterprise crew (and her Dad). Ditto a whole novel on McCoy's ex-wife. The exploration of Ceti Alpha VI, post-ST II, was made stronger when it was Kirk and Chekov who go back there rather than a new, unknown Starfleet ship, captain and crew.

It's unlikely we'd ever get a whole book set on Andor. However, if it's to be visited by Shar & Prynn, or Picard & Shar, then that book becomes more commercially viable. I'd expect that an ENT novel set on Andor would feature Shran. A TOS book set on Andor would probably feature Shras.

In the DS9 TV series, Jadzia Dax could have teamed up with three unknown Klingons, but how much fun that all three Klingons once battled wits and phasers with Kirk? The episode pleased Dax and DS9 fans, but also TOS fans and TOS Klingon fans.

Every time some says, why wasn't that character an all-new character, someone else will ask why the position couldn't have been filled by an old favourite we've barely got to know canonically.

That's what I miss when Titan is involved in a crossover rather than a stand alone. The primary interaction is between the major characters for the most part. I'd rather learn more about the varied characters on the Titan. Given the choice between seeing how Ezri gets along with Riker or finding out more about Gibruch, Sen'kara or Ooteshk and how they interact with the crew and a new alien race I''ll choose the latter. The books offer the opportunity to delve into aliens in a way that you can't in a 44 minute TV episode.

What's the flavour of each of the series? What's it's voice? What makes it distinct from the others?

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

I'm looking forward to more on the Breen in particular. I have a lot of catching-up to do, but so far in my reading, I remain disappointed in how little we ever saw or read on them.

 

[Christopher]

That's what I miss when Titan is involved in a crossover rather than a stand alone. The primary interaction is between the major characters for the most part. I'd rather learn more about the varied characters on the Titan. Given the choice between seeing how Ezri gets along with Riker or finding out more about Gibruch, Sen'kara or Ooteshk and how they interact with the crew and a new alien race I''ll choose the latter. The books offer the opportunity to delve into aliens in a way that you can't in a 44 minute TV episode.

What's the flavour of each of the series? What's it's voice? What makes it distinct from the others?

See, this is why it's a mistake to assume that Destiny is a model for anything that follows rather than a unique event. Most Trek novel crossovers don't involve the casts interacting directly. Rather, they involve each cast independently dealing with a separate aspect of the overall theme or situation. So the distinct character emphasis, flavor, and voice of each series remains.

Destiny was unique in that it featured heavy interaction among the crews, and even it didn't really have that until Book 3. Gateways had one scene featuring direct interaction among the TNG, DS9, and NF crews while otherwise keeping them separate, and of course the VGR, TOS, and Challenger crews were all completely separate from the rest. Double Helix had mixes and matches of TNG characters with various others, but no whole-crew interaction. Otherwise, every crossover has kept the crews entirely separate:

Invasion!: Each crew deals with a separate aspect of the Furies crisis at a separate time. One guest character crosses over from the TNG installment to the VGR installment, but no other character interaction occurs.

Day of Honor: Four totally separate stories whose only connection is the day they take place on (in different years) and the fact that they all involve Klingons. Kor guest stars in the TOS and DS9 installments, a century apart, but cross-references are minimal.

The Captain's Table: Six independent stories linked only by the mode of presentation, narrated in the first person by the captains. The frame stories in the Captain's Table bar involve some recurring characters, but there's no direct interaction between the featured captains; one leaves and then the next enters. The actual stories told by the captains are completely standalone.

Section 31: Four totally separate stories about the different crews' separate interactions with S31 in the course of various different adventures. The S31 connection in the VGR installment is tenuous.

The Badlands, The Brave and the Bold: Both duologies consist of four stories showing the respective crews dealing with separate aspects of a common problem at separate times, with no direct interaction among the featured crews. TB&tB has each featured crew interacting with a guest crew (and is actually told from the guest crew's perspective), but there are no lead-lead crossovers, only lead-guest crossovers. (Although Klag subsequently became the lead of his own series, so that could count as an exception.)


So what you're complaining about as your problem with crossovers is something that is not actually done in most Trek crossovers. It happened only in Destiny, and very slightly in Gateways. It's the exception rather than the rule.

Most Trek novel crossovers are intentionally designed so that each installment can be read independently. If you're only a fan of a certain series, you only need to read the book in that series and you won't miss anything. If you can't find every book in the crossover, that's fine, because you don't need to read them all.