LOL!Head Trip warned me about this.
Sexy Chewbacca outfit.
- Thread starter broberfett
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I don't recall Chewie ever carrying a Lasertag gun.
^^ Tell it!
So: you believe that men who even vaguely and abstractly think of a sequence in a PG movie in which a beautiful woman murders her captor (and who isn't crying, bruised or even felt up) loathe women, and are prone to committing violence against them also. Wow, you must be a total misandrist.
You sure are putting a lot of words in my mouth, dude.
I never said anybody loathed women; I never said anybody was more prone to committing violence against women. (OK, to clear the air, I was kidding about the FBI watch list. We realize that was a joke, right?)
Here's a word I didn't put in your mouth: "murder." You see how that's wrong, right?
Anyway, yeah, the only reason that sequence works in RotJ at all is because Leia ultimately overcomes the danger herself, almost entirely through her own strength. You wanna talk about how Leia is awesome? Go right ahead. You wanna talk about Slave Leia is hot while she's choking out a Hutt? Well, it's a common opinion, it turns out.
It is suspect that the danger to Leia takes the form it does; further, the manner in which the danger is presented is itself a little suspect. Just because Jennifer Hills kills all her rapists does not make I Spit On Your Grave a feminist work. Likewise, just because Leia Organa successfully garrotes a perverse Hutt, RotJ is not suddenly respectful of women.
You really, really don't see any problem with men and boys picking up "hot" from a sequence where a female character is subject to degradation by the villain, and further sexually and mortally threatened?
Imagine that, instead of Slave Leia in a Metal Bikini, the sexy danger scene in Return of the Jedi is Luke is being put in thong by the Emperor and chained to his throne, and women and girls have thought the costume he wore was the hottest thing ever for twenty-five years. That's just plain fucking creepy.
Forget analogies and counterfactuals, however. Is the preceding sequence where the Twi'lek unsuccessfully opposes Jabba worth emulating? Is the only thing redeeming the putative hotness of Leia's costume her victory? That seems like an unpleasant dividing line, given that it is based pretty much entirely on who is physically stronger.
It's not like it's the end of the world, and yes, contextless, it's an attractive ensemble, but the context does make it bothersome. It's not a costume that Leia wears all the time and incidentally wears to her sexual battery; it is part of the sexual battery.
I'd also like to point out that a 1983 PG is not identical to a 2010 PG. Sixteen Candles was PG, for example. So that little detail has very little to do with the sexual or mature content of a 1983 film. It's like a very liberal PG-13.
Kestrel said:
Comparing sexual battery to a brutal rape is comparing apples to slightly larger apples.
***
It's kinda interesting how much this pisses off people. I wonder why?
Well, I've got to give you points for consistency, but I disagree with your conclusion - I think it'd be hilarious and fun. I'm all for equal-opportunity ogling.
Okay, let's talk context. In all the cultural and real-life homages to the costume, is it ever used to degrade/assault women the way Jabba does? I don't think so. I think fans ogle the women in costume appreciatively and respectively without seeking to "emulate" a massive slug by looking for a way to kill them if they don't dance well enough. So, by your own admission, when the homage's context is respectful, the bikini isn't inherently harmful.
And again, I've got no axe to grind here, as I'd rather ogle a woman in a TNG outfit any day.
If The Dark Knight can get a PG-13, RotJ should definitely stay on a lower rung, imho.
Well, according to Freud, we live in constant fear of devil-women chopping our penises off.
Gaith said:
No, the outfit is not per se harmful. Bikinis are, in general, hot. That specific bikini, when tied to RotJ, and because of its associations, are not.
Or throttling them with a metal chain?Well, according to Freud, we live in constant fear of devil-women chopping our penises off.
I dunno. Different discussion, but insofar as I think movie ratings have a value (if they do, it's pretty low), I wouldn't disapprove of a PG-13 for Jedi (or Empire, or Hope). They all have scenes which are a little too much for modern PG: Hope has charred corpses, Hope and Empire both have a dismemberment scene, Jedi has some pretty gnarly monsters and two scenes of people getting eaten alive. Plus the unrelentingly grim feel of Empire and much of Jedi. Finally, I think the Leia thing actually does push Jedi easily into PG-13 territory, making that the surest case.
It wonder if the prequels are actually less violent or just seem less violent, due to the rampant CGI and the lighting choices.
Although fwiw, Sith did get a PG-13--I'd have assumed for the mostly offscreen child murder, but Attack of the Clones had mostly offscreen child murder too.
(Maybe they do just seem less violent.)
^ 91 Reasons to Hate Star Wars: Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
This thread's gotten a bit serious, so...
There we go.
Sith earned its PG-13 on that scene alone.
And fans tend to remember the bikini and Fisher for their own attributes, independently of the scenes that featured them. So again, by your own metric, no harm done.
This thread's gotten a bit serious, so...
There we go.
Gaith said:
Yeah, that works. The only other thing that springs to mind is maybe the spousal abuse.
Praetor Shinzon said:how dare we leer at that woman. don't you think its shameful and degrading to women since Tasha Yar wore a similar uniform and died a terrible, yet useless, death?
Yeah. I guess that would seem totally analogous, were you high.
Also, heels might seem to be the most appropriate footwear an engineer or security officer could possibly wear.
(Of course, in this context, I don't really give a crap. It makes sense for a costume, although I think the fit on the jumpsuit could be better, at least on the model they're using to sell it. Jeez.)
You do realize that by phrasing it that way, you're practically begging me to make a joke about how she should therefore try on a few other uniforms in the privacy of my captain's yacht, right?
Okay, I'm not a particular fan of the bikini, but I still find that the dumbest thing I've heard in a week.Good. Aside from being overplayed, anyone who's watched RotJ should not find it sexy. Those who do weren't paying attention to the context, or should be placed on an FBI watch list.
Haven't we had this debate before? Jabba is unlikely to have the proper physiology for anything untoward and in any case would find a scrawny bony tiny little human about as appealing as any of us would find a goldfish. (At the risk of inspiring jokers to tell us all about their sexual adventures of the piscine variety).
You sure are putting a lot of words in my mouth, dude.
In fairness, if you've ever seen one of his polls you wouldn't be surprised.
I think the problem is that the costume has become almost entirely removed from context and has taken on something of a life of its own. Contextually, yeah.
I suppose, yeah. Maybe I was just a weird kid though, but I never got any sense that Leia was in actual danger during that particular scene, and in general everything about Jabba the Hutt seemed to be more of a... nuisance to Our Heroes than an actual threat (in fairness, I haven't seen RotJ since I was probably an early teen) - and that really clashes with what I've heard about the scene in Irreversible.
Dunno about the last question.
Leia wasn't in any real danger because that would be sexual and Star Wars isn't about sex!!! It's the same reason why we are all expected to believe that the minute that Luke finds out Leia's his sister, any romantic feelings about her would magically go poof or better yet, were all just a figment of our overheated imaginations to begin with.
But anyway, I like the high-collared white-dress costume the best of all the Star Wars inspired costumes. For a site that wildly sleazy, I just thought the lack of a metal bikini option was a strange oversight.
THAT is more disturbing than speculation about Jabba and goldfish!
Read fanfic. You'll find that and oh so very much more.
But anyway, I like the high-collared white-dress costume the best of all the Star Wars inspired costumes. For a site that wildly sleazy, I just thought the lack of a metal bikini option was a strange oversight.
LOL!Head Trip warned me about this.
THAT is more disturbing than speculation about Jabba and goldfish!
Well, I've got to give you points for consistency, but I disagree with your conclusion - I think it'd be hilarious and fun. I'm all for equal-opportunity ogling.
Read fanfic. You'll find that and oh so very much more.
^ No, no, ogling. Put a cute girl in a geeky costume, ideally not Slave Leia because my indifference to its ubiquity actually gives me an adverse reaction, and let me see it. Keep your text to yourself!
And yeah, the above comic is pretty funny.
Maybe they aren't doing the bikini because they're not Lucasfilm-licensed, and have to make significant alterations to the costumes or get sued?
And yeah, the above comic is pretty funny.
Maybe they aren't doing the bikini because they're not Lucasfilm-licensed, and have to make significant alterations to the costumes or get sued?
Nice looking Leia.
I also liked the Batgirl and Robin costumes...
Tell her you have to check her inseam.You do realize that by phrasing it that way, you're practically begging me to make a joke about how she should therefore try on a few other uniforms in the privacy of my captain's yacht, right?
Well, that's the second pillar of my argument. I'd be tired of seeing the damn thing if all the scene had been was Leia giving Han a nice blowjob.
Kestrel said:In fairness, if you've ever seen one of his polls you wouldn't be surprised.
Nah, me and Gaith usually agree or constructively disagree. I mean, I didn't intend to insinuate that you guys were all characters in a John Ringo novel.
It's awful to watch, yet it's actually slightly less horrible than the opening scene (chronologically the last scene). Also, there's a murder really early on that's pretty unpleasant. *rimshot*
(Hopefully someone else has seen the movie, so at least one person may get about the most obscure joke I've ever made on here...)
In a way, I think what you and Temis talk about is what bothers me the most about it. I'm actually less bothered by the rape in Irreversible than I am in the sexual dangers women are placed in more kid-friendly fare. That is, one treats rape with solemnity, while the other is content to use it as a plot device, and we as the audience are permitted to enjoy the sexual danger because we know it'll all be cool in the end. The villain who has kidnapped the heroine to make her his bride will be laid low;
(One may argue in specific that Irreversible treats Alex' rape as not too much more than a plot device to send its male protagonists on their quest; but there's a lot going on under the hood in Irreversible, and that's for another thread).
Jedi hits a sort of middle ground, and I waver on whether its treatment is exploitative or (as Gaith argues) liberating, or neither.
I considered comparing it to the hospital scene in Kill Bill instead of the rape in Irreversible, which is a regrettably one-sided affair. Yet while Beatrix killing the fuck out of Buck is at least as liberating as the scene in Jedi, no one (that I am aware of) dresses in a hospital gown and says they're Beatrix Kiddo waking up from her coma.* Presumably this is because the danger in Kill Bill is a bit more defined, a bit more real, and hence more unpleasant, than the danger in Jedi.
*The obvious counterargument is that a hospital gown is hardly iconic and no one would know who the hell you're supposed to be, and there's the perfectly awesome yellow and black motorcycle suit + Hanzo steel costume right there for the taking. But it still poses the questions of how, precisely, Slave Leia became iconic.
Anyway, I understand that to many this is a rather dreary discussion. But I'm honestly not the least fun guy you've ever known. For example, there's Ben Stein.
So you're the former Myasishchev, eh? I guess I should have picked up on that...
Because a generation of early-teenage boys grew up with the OT on VHS, and that was the only notable skin in all three movies, so it made a big impression. I really think the explanation is that innocent.
Bueler....
