Star Wars Heir To The Empire special edition coming
- Thread starter Whofan
- Start date
Uh, no. The maitrakh very clearly states that it's been forty of Leia's years - i.e., standard galactic time - since the Clone Wars battle.
If indeed Zahn knew that The Flanneled One always intended for the Republic to become the Empire, I'm a little fuzzy on when he figured that Anakin's fall occurred. The PT timing of ~20 BBY makes sense, so for the Clone Wars to have occurred ~35 BBY would mean that Anakin's fall and the rise of the Empire happened for unrelated reasons. Maybe this new edition will address this... but no changes to the actual text, dammit!
Jeeze, I gotta read the Thrawn books. I have them on my bookshelf now, but I wanna get caught up on Clone Wars first. Don't wanna go getting confused!
Gimmee Starfleet any day.
As for the Republic-Empire thing, I think I always figured the Republic turned into the Empire, largely because the "Imperial Senate" implied that there had once been a more valid sort of Senate, and Leia & her family on Alderaan certainly weren't pro-Empire, which implied that they recalled a situation when they had power as part of a genuine Republic. There didn't seem to be "other people" who might represent the invaders. The Alderaan crowd were humans, Moff Tarkin was human, etc.
However, I figured the Republic fell much longer than 20 years previously, and that the twins were born long after Anakin became a Sith, rather than around the same time, otherwise how could the Jedi and the Force just become some silly ancient myth in so short a time?
Same here. I'd like to see some premise for the Clone Wars that doesn't make the Jedi look like they deserved to be slaughtered by the folks they were merrily using as cannon fodder. What kind of Republic needs clones to fight its battles? It can't get regular citizens to defend it? That sounds like a rotten Republic that deserves to fall.
To the extent I thought anything about it, I assumed it was something like, some bad world or society was creating clones to use as slaves and/or cannon fodder and the good, pure and noble Jedi were fighting for the rights of the poor, oppressed clones and to free them from their degrading circumstances. Imagine my horror upon learning the truth.
Gimmee Starfleet any day.As for the Republic-Empire thing, I think I always figured the Republic turned into the Empire, largely because the "Imperial Senate" implied that there had once been a more valid sort of Senate, and Leia & her family on Alderaan certainly weren't pro-Empire, which implied that they recalled a situation when they had power as part of a genuine Republic. There didn't seem to be "other people" who might represent the invaders. The Alderaan crowd were humans, Moff Tarkin was human, etc.
However, I figured the Republic fell much longer than 20 years previously, and that the twins were born long after Anakin became a Sith, rather than around the same time, otherwise how could the Jedi and the Force just become some silly ancient myth in so short a time?
Same here. I'd like a revised trilogy that first and foremost, incorporates the revised characterization of Anakin. And from what I've seen of Obi-Wan, he also seems improved, though he didn't need improvement quite so badly.
Same here. I'd like to see some premise for the Clone Wars that doesn't make the Jedi look like they deserved to be slaughtered by the folks they were merrily using as cannon fodder. What kind of Republic needs clones to fight its battles? It can't get regular citizens to defend it? That sounds like a rotten Republic that deserves to fall.
^The Republic Commando novels sort of deal with the morality of the Clone army.
BTW I wonder if they'll also release the Dark Horse comics adaptation of the Thrawn trilogy. Sure it cut some scenes and had some questionable art direction at times (Such as the *tall* Noghri) but it was kind of fun.
BTW I wonder if they'll also release the Dark Horse comics adaptation of the Thrawn trilogy. Sure it cut some scenes and had some questionable art direction at times (Such as the *tall* Noghri) but it was kind of fun.
Actually I saw that in a hardback collection in a Borders a few weeks ago.
There were a few short stories in the Star Wars Insider (written by Zahn) that retconned some of the 'clonemasters' and the 'spaarti' stuff from the Thrawn trilogy with the prequels.
^Heroes of Cartao, I think.
As for original ideas for the Clone Wars, there are actually two ideas-not really by Lucas-that sort of showed up in the 80s:
-In Leigh Brackett's ESB script she had Lando be a Clone of some sort.
-Kenner originally planned to expand the toyline in the 80s with Clone warriors led by Atha Prime, a sort of evil scientist. Prime, interestingly, was based on concept art for the Imperial guards in ROTJ, which was eventually used for the Imperial sentinels in the Dark Empire comic series. During Hasbro's initial expanded Universe line, they made a figure of the sentinel, so Atha prime got his figure after all, in a way.
Funny thing is, I remember when some people thought Cloning as a technology was "Too Star Trek" for Star Wars and therefore had no place in continuity. They tried to justify the Clone Wars dialogue by saying it was " against General Clone of the Mandalorians" or something. Times change...
As for original ideas for the Clone Wars, there are actually two ideas-not really by Lucas-that sort of showed up in the 80s:
-In Leigh Brackett's ESB script she had Lando be a Clone of some sort.
-Kenner originally planned to expand the toyline in the 80s with Clone warriors led by Atha Prime, a sort of evil scientist. Prime, interestingly, was based on concept art for the Imperial guards in ROTJ, which was eventually used for the Imperial sentinels in the Dark Empire comic series. During Hasbro's initial expanded Universe line, they made a figure of the sentinel, so Atha prime got his figure after all, in a way.
Funny thing is, I remember when some people thought Cloning as a technology was "Too Star Trek" for Star Wars and therefore had no place in continuity. They tried to justify the Clone Wars dialogue by saying it was " against General Clone of the Mandalorians" or something. Times change...
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Also for some reason I thought the Mandalorians were involved in the Clone Wars and this was years before the PT happened. I would attempt to integrate the Clone Wars stuff into Heir of the Empire in a special edition, but not go nuts about it.
I'm loathe to drag politics into this, but an example that always comes to my mind to explain the Jedi becoming myth in only 20 years is the fact that in the real world, people to this day believe that Iraq had WMD's.
Anyways, sounds interesting, but I'm more interested in something like animated versions of this trilogy, the Dark Empire stories, even Splinter of the Mind's Eye and Shadows of the Empire.
That was the official position of the Star Wars newsletter published by Lucas. That the Clone Wars were against the Shocktroopers that Boba Fett was a member of.
Mandalorians were a term created by the Marvel Comics.
Somehow it does not surprise me Del Rey is digging for something "new" to sell people because their current stuff sucks so bad. Re-issuing the Thrawn trilogy as "Special Editions" is a good way for them to do that. In hardcover no less. I'll bet we see the other books also get the same treatment too.
Del Rey's terrible abuse of the EU (both in the story itself and releasing everything in hardcover to cash in) actually drove me to quit reading the books. And I'm not going to support them in this either.
It's too bad too because I like Zahn's work. I have read most of his books outside of Star Wars as well. He's not the greatest writer but he's good at writing characters (Mary-Sue's or not) and a good story that at least entertains.
Del Rey's terrible abuse of the EU (both in the story itself and releasing everything in hardcover to cash in) actually drove me to quit reading the books. And I'm not going to support them in this either.
It's too bad too because I like Zahn's work. I have read most of his books outside of Star Wars as well. He's not the greatest writer but he's good at writing characters (Mary-Sue's or not) and a good story that at least entertains.
I thought Mandalorians were mentioned in The Empire Strikes Back novel. According to the Wiki:
I always imagined (way before the PT was thought of) that the Cone Wars were a series of conflicts between Clones vs. the Jedi/main populace of the Galaxy. One of the results of the Clone Wars being the banning of all cloning technology. Hence the fact Luke receives a mechanical hand instead of a cloned hand and the heavy reliance on droids and machinery.
I never connected the Clone Wars directly to the fall of the Old Republic and the rise of the Empire. As stated above I likewise took the line from ANH where the Imperial Senate was dissolved to indicate that the Empire gradually grew over time and that the Republic morphed into a new tyrannical political entity.
I never imagined the clones to be the "good guys" at some point in the story.
Of course, I also took the dialogue from ANH and ROTJ to indicate that Bail Organa and Kenobi served closer together during the Clone Wars and that Luke and Leia's mother fled to Alderran to live.
I agree, Temis. The whole thing stinks.
That was kind of the point behind the Republic though, thought it was clearly depicted in the prequels as an old institution having grown too large and ineffective to govern and protect it's citizens. Palpatine saw this and using the power of the Dark Side combined with his own skills as a master politician manipulated the system to bring about it's downfall and usher in his new Empire. The Republic had no standing army, presumably no draft, and the clones obviously were set up for future use as Stormtroopers. I don't get what the confusion or criticism is here.
That's what happens when you have a government that is stupid enough to not have its own army.
Since cloning was mentioned by implication early in ANH, I don't see the logic behind that. What tech is or isn't "right" for Star Wars depends on what tech Star Wars shows. You might as well say lightspeed is "wrong" for Star Wars.
However, Star Wars does have (or should have) more of a mystical rather than technological focus which is why it makes sense to limit the sci fi gimmickry, for instance, for what time travel exists to be visions courtesy of the Force rather than setting-the-timeline-right type Trekkian jaunts.
I did notice something along those lines, but it was pretty half-heartedly done. I didn't see anything that convinced me that the good people of the Republic were all in mortal danger, and I didn't get the idea that Lucas was trying to convince me that he thinks totalitarianism is a great option if a society's safety depends on it (and given what I know of his politics, I wouldn't expect him to try to make this argument - but there's no reason his movies need to follow his personal politics.)
For this to have been the actual premise of the PT would lead inevitably to the idea that Anakin was right to choose the Dark Side as a viable option to the corruption he saw around him, that endangered the lives of billions, and Anakin would have had to have been depicted as being right, not as a tragic figure but as the true hero of the story.
When he blew up Alderaan later on, for instance, that was just acceptible losses, defending a political system that in balance was necessary to safeguard the lives of trillions of beings. The rebels were a bunch of childish idiots who didn't understand how things need to work, and when they overthrew the Empire, they endangered the lives of trillions through the chaos they left in their wake.
All this certainly would have cast the OT in a whole new and possibly very interesting light, which we really would have needed to see a sequel trilogy for, and since I want to see the sequels, I'd be perfectly happy with that. If the old Republic was so corrupt and incompetent that totalitarianism was preferable, then the story isn't finished till we see how Luke and Leia manage to fix whatever caused the problem with the original Republic and not repeat the tragedy of the past. Or maybe they do repeat the tragedy of the past. Also, ROTJ's ending would need to be re-shot, because the idea that Anakin dies without Luke ever realizing that his father was a hero who didn't need redemption is a pretty lousy way to end his story.
But if Lucas really wanted to indict the Republic, then he needed to stop trying to depict Anakin as a poor, pathetic dupe of Palps and rather depict him as someone making a perfectly rational choice even though he'd been on to Palps for a long time. And Obi-Wan would be revealed as a villain for trying to stop Anakin, and mangle the poor guy in the process, when he was just looking out for everyone's best interests, but had to battle the moronic Jedi who were mindlessly following the orders of a degenerate Republic and standing in the way of progress.
All this is entertaining to discuss but I think it's way too out-there for Star Wars, which really should stick to a far more simplistic level - simplistic in a good way, meaning like mythology, not meaning dumb and poorly thought through. The Republic should be basically good and functional. Anakin should be a great hero with that one fatal flaw that brings down even great heroes - hubris. He's not pathetic, manipulated, or too stupid to save himself. Lucas just needed to pick a GOOD plotline and really go with it instead of flail around with a bunch of half-baked notions that didn't add up to bupkis.
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I do think one of the mistakes of the prequels was introducing too much political commentary. Kids don't want to see that when they go see a science fiction movie.
The political commentary was always in there. Lucas's mistake was making it more contemporary with Anakin quoting Bush.
