Jane Espenson on Torchwood

[The Borgified Corpse]

Going through Espenson's writing credits, I find a very mixed bag. "Briar Rose" was one of the better Dollhouse episodes in Season 1. (Only "A Spy in the House of Love" & "Epitaph One" truly surpass it, IMO.) She also wrote some great Buffy episodes, like "Band Candy," "Earshot," "Pangs," "The Replacement," & "Triangle." On the other hand, she also wrote a few dogs, like "Gingerbread" & "Doomed." And the fact that she had any involvement with Battlestar Galactica in its final, circling-the-drain phase gives me pause.

Mostly, while I loved "Children of Earth," I'm wary about starting in on another emotional roller coaster of an epic miniseries. I'd prefer it if they at least started reassembling the pieces with a few stand-alones before launching into another cataclysmic arc.

I guess they're trying to forget season 1...

In many ways, I think they already did. At the very least, I would have expected a small level of subconscious discomfort on the part of Gwen and/or Owen when Owen first met Rhys in "Meat."

But I've noticed that on these boards people seem to really despise the show. This may seem like a stupid question but why do people hate Torchwood so much?

Because they didn't show us the best part of "Greeks Bearing Gifts"!

Personally, I only disliked the first season. And not even hate. Just didn't enjoy watching it. The scripts were overtly dark for dark's sake. Sexual content and violence thrown in for mere shock value. No real merit to the drama or plot, which served to undermine the flavor of the show as something cheap and puerile. A blatant focus on attracting a teenage demographic that marketing seems to still believe lacks the shrewdness to recognize transparent hollowness of any real art. Not to mention, the characters (save Jack and possibly Gwen) were completely unlikable on any real level. Why would anyone want to spend time watching them? In other words, there was no reward for enduring the dark and misery of their world.

I mostly agree with this, although I think I tolerated Season 1 a lot better than most people did. I thought the characters were the show's main strength. Certainly Tosh & Ianto were pretty darn likable. Jack wasn't unlikable, although it was something of a harsh contrast to the bubbly persona that we'd grown to love during his early Doctor Who appearances.

Gwen was where the show really fumbled. She was supposed to be the anchor or likability for the show. Instead, she became the worst one of all when she started drugging Rhys.

I'll admit that Owen was always an asshole. But then, I tend to like TV's assholes. Some of my favorite characters include Gaius Baltar on Battlestar Galactica, Arnold Rimmer on Red Dwarf, Eric Cartman on South Park, & Dr. Rodney McKay on Stargate Atlantis.

 

[Starkers]

I'll admit that Owen was always an asshole. But then, I tend to like TV's assholes. Some of my favorite characters include Gaius Baltar on Battlestar Galactica, Arnold Rimmer on Red Dwarf, Eric Cartman on South Park, & Dr. Rodney McKay on Stargate Atlantis.

Yeah Owen was an arse, and yet he was by far the most interesting character, probably the only one who felt more than 2 dimentional. Ianto seemed so wishy washy, who knew he'd become Mr Cool in S2 and 3!

 

[The]

In the second episode of the entire series, Ianto was portrayed as a psychotic crybaby who would threaten his friends with a pistol at the drop of a hat. If I were Jack, I would have put a bullet through his forehead in the first five-minutes of "Cyberwoman". Owen was an asshole, but he was also one of the fugliest guys I've ever seen. So, the combination made me fast-forward his screentime. Tosh was a boring character, with little acting behind it, and was only cool because she had appeared with Eccleston's Doctor. Jack and Gwen are about the only two I ever liked, and even then I thought Gwen was a terribly written character later in the season. Jack is always better on Doctor Who, for some reason. I guess because Jack is better when he's the lighter, wise-ass action hero, than the somber, brooding, angsty immortal whiner on Torchwood.

I'm glad most of them are dead, even and especially Ianto (sorry). Hopefully the new Torchwood season will avoid any of the horrible character missteps from their beginnings...

 

[Starkers]

^I always thought Jack worked best as the maverick underling/companion rather than the guy in charge.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Tosh was a boring character, with little acting behind it, and was only cool because she had appeared with Eccleston's Doctor.

My personal theory about that appearance is that, in the midst of an unfortunate body-swapping story between Tosh & Owen, Owen-in-Tosh's-body went undercover posing as a medical examiner for UNIT.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Tosh was a boring character, with little acting behind it, and was only cool because she had appeared with Eccleston's Doctor.

My personal theory about that appearance is that, in the midst of an unfortunate body-swapping story between Tosh & Owen, Owen-in-Tosh's-body went undercover posing as a medical examiner for UNIT.

Didn't they explain it as he was hung over and she went in to cover for him?

 

[captcalhoun]

yes, something like that

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Tosh was a boring character, with little acting behind it, and was only cool because she had appeared with Eccleston's Doctor.

My personal theory about that appearance is that, in the midst of an unfortunate body-swapping story between Tosh & Owen, Owen-in-Tosh's-body went undercover posing as a medical examiner for UNIT.

Didn't they explain it as he was hung over and she went in to cover for him?

Wait. When was this? I wouldn't have thought that anyone other than me was interested in incorporating Naoko Mori's "Aliens of London" cameo into a Torchwood story.

 

[Stevil2001]

Owen and Tosh talk about this as they die in "Exit Wounds," turning a continuity fix into a touching moment. Or rather, they would if the episode wasn't written by Chris Chibnall.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

I don't know why so many people hate Chibnall so much. But then, I really liked some of the more unpopular Season 1 episodes like "Cyberwoman" & "Countrycide."

 

[Stevil2001]

Personally speaking, the only Chibnall episode I like is "Fragments," and then only kind of. And "Exit Wounds" especially was awful.

 

[Starkers]

I think he's probably a better writer than season 1 suggests, clearly S1 scripts didn't get nearly enough time spent on polishing them.

That said I don't think he's a brilliant writer, 42 is a pretty bland ep of Who, not bad just a bit ordinary.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

He did well enough on Life on Mars and Law & Order UK.

 

[Stevil2001]

Torchwood has a unique power to make good writers seem awful; witness P. J. Hammond and "Out of the Rain."

 

[Starkers]

Out of the Rain's problem was the direction, needed to be a lot darker and it should have been a cracker.

Bob, I always forget he wrote some LoM (but lets face it some eps of that were better than others.) As for L&O, don't watch it, but isn't he basically just adapting existing American scripts?

 

[Stevil2001]

I think "Out of the Rain" would have been better had the silent movie characters stayed silent on their emergence from the film-- and stayed black and white. That would have been so creepy. (I wonder if Hammond didn't pitch it that way, because it's a very Sapphire & Steel idea.)

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Bob, I always forget he wrote some LoM (but lets face it some eps of that were better than others.) As for L&O, don't watch it, but isn't he basically just adapting existing American scripts?

He did episode 7 of series one and episode 2 of series 2, both decent episodes of LoM. And while, yes, L&OUK scripts are based on American ones it doesn't mean adapting them is necessarily any easier than writing new episodes, there are a lot of differences between British law and procedure and American, and just because an idea is there doesn't mean it's necessarily easy to translate in to a workable story and script for British TV.

 

[Starkers]

I think "Out of the Rain" would have been better had the silent movie characters stayed silent on their emergence from the film-- and stayed black and white. That would have been so creepy. (I wonder if Hammond didn't pitch it that way, because it's a very Sapphire & Steel idea.)

Yeah it was very S&S, so I wonder that too. TW's problem when it comes to the spooky stuff is that it still lights the show like its bloody Hollyoaks!

Bob, I need to figure out which eps of LOM those are, I don't think he's a bad writer, just not a good writer. Just a bit functional.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Bob, I need to figure out which eps of LOM those are, I don't think he's a bad writer, just not a good writer. Just a bit functional.

1x7 is the episode where they catch the guy on drug charges and he dies in the cells of a drug overdose. But his sister tells them he would never do drugs because of he had a heart problem.
Which I thought was a good episode.

2x2 was the episode where Sam's mentor dies, and then he meets him in 72 and finds that he plays up his "black man" role and finds Gene's mentor is a bent copper.
Not as good as the other ep but still a strong episode I think.

 

[Stevil2001]

Yeah it was very S&S, so I wonder that too. TW's problem when it comes to the spooky stuff is that it still lights the show like its bloody Hollyoaks!

Oh goodness yes. I forget which one has Gwen wandering around a spooky hospital, but it's bright as day. And then the lights flicker to make it brighter!