Why didn't Old Biff come back to an alternate 2015?
- Thread starter Brent
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Doc did offer to reshoe the horse and Mad Dog refused his offer, Tannen was a drunk and a criminal and probably wouldn't just settle for cash. These movies remember are about destiny and that you can have the ability to CHANGE destiny. Doc was always going to be shot, changing the events of the film would have altered the very core of the flim to the point where there would have been no point. The events of the first time line still needed to happen so that Marty could get to the past in order to get home in the first place.
Extra time didn't seem to help Marty remember anything from the new timeline in Biff-controls-the-universe-1985. I suppose you could argue that it would take a few days for the new memories to pop up, but we never really saw evidence to that effect in the movie.
The other odd thing is that there can be multiple Marty McFlys in some instances (going back a few minutes at the end of part 1, the older self in part 2) but not other instances (the end of part 1). What are the rules for "replacing" yourself (becoming the one and only Marty in a timeline)?
I stand corrected...could have sworn that Doc asked him to bring the horse back and Tannen replied that he went and shot the horse already. But that quote still places Doc in a decent light, Tannen never did pay him for the original job, I don't think that shows Doc in a bad light. This is the old west afterall and a good old shootout is how they settled things like this and it kind of was a hollywood cliche.
^^ Right; once Marty warned Doc of his peril, he could still have paid Buford off. It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of whether Buford would have accepted a $100 bribe not to kill Doc, which he certainly would have: even otherwise dim bullies know that a weakling once extorted can be pumped again and again. The whole one-week deadline in Part III was thus a failed attempt to replicate the genuine narrative urgency of Part I.
how about this, when Nu-Marty went back, he "merged" with Old Marty in the time-stream because he became redundant
It isn't actually.
Here's something else.
When Alternate 1985 Marty travels back to 1955 he should crash into himself.
[Our] Marty arrives in the alternate 1985 -not the dystopic one- he goes to the mall. There's some important things to note here. He watches the events from earlier in the movie take place. We know the place he's now in is changed by it being the "Lone Pine Mall" now and what we later see of his home life. This means this 1985's past is based on his intervention. That means in this 1985 Maty's past our Marty was there. Our DeLorean was there, etc. This means when this Marty goes back in time he would crash into our Marty. By this movie's own time-travel logic.
This isn't a "pre-destination paradox." This movie's time-travel isn't working like that. If "this" Marty hadn't traveled back in time his past wouldn't have been effected. It had already occured, his past and present isn't dependant on him traveling back in time.
So when he arrives in 1955 he should crash into Marty, actuall appear right on top of him. This movie practices a non-linear time-travel. To "prove" this we'll say it like this. Say that instead of Marty-A going back in time in that exact spot he goes back in a slightly different spot. With this movie's time-travel logic he should be able to go back in time and see himself and what really happened to bring his parents together.
So when we see Marty travels back in time he's either got to crash into himself or, maybe, while in the "continuim" between the time periods he, or "our Marty", will be displaced into nothingness.
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but there's no way to tell which is more redundant especially when it is nuMarty who is domestic to the timeline Marty Prime is violating and it would seem that NuMarty has more right to exist since it his universe which is dominant by the end of the of the first movie... But it was pretty cool watching the Jacks and Baltars merge in Eureka last week, less so when the same thing happened in the last season of Charmed.
All 3 movies are wonderful, infact its one of the best Hollywood trilogys.
@Gaith Bufford would have accepted a "bribe" (this is your term not mine Gaith) in place of the money that was due him? LOL. That is a laughable comment. How is giving someone money that they're already due a bribe? It's not. Doc would be just giving him money that Tannen didn't even PAY HIM for in the first place. Wow...
How do you know that he would have accepted the money in the first place? It is clear from how he was portrayed that Tannen was a bully, and a criminal, this was the whole point of his character. I find it highly unlikely that he would have accepted anything from Doc and let him be on his marry way. Doc is lucky that he didn't out right shoot him, he lost his temper in that scene...and next time if you are going to post something to try and reinforce your argument please post the entire quote and not just what pertains to your part of the debate. Thanks.
@Trekker....I know it wasn't how things were done, as I said right after what you quoted this was something of a hollywood cliche so it fit in the context of the film.
How do you know that he would have accepted the money in the first place? It is clear from how he was portrayed that Tannen was a bully, and a criminal, this was the whole point of his character. I find it highly unlikely that he would have accepted anything from Doc and let him be on his marry way. Doc is lucky that he didn't out right shoot him, he lost his temper in that scene...and next time if you are going to post something to try and reinforce your argument please post the entire quote and not just what pertains to your part of the debate. Thanks.
@Trekker....I know it wasn't how things were done, as I said right after what you quoted this was something of a hollywood cliche so it fit in the context of the film.
^ So you're saying that even if, after Buford told Doc that he owed him money, Doc had immediately paid the $80 that Buford asked for, Buford would have shot Doc anyway?
Bufford didn't say he was owed money as a "refund" on the shoeing he was owed money to replace the whiskey and the horse he lost due to the horse throwing the shoe. (Granted we've no idea how much Doc charged for the shoeing.)
But if Doc and Marty were heading home anyway they could've paid Tannen off to buy the time they needed to repair the DeLorean and/or outfit it to work. The time-crunch in the movie is artificial because there's any number of ways it could've been solved. It's not as "tight" as the time-crunch in the first movie.
Doc could've just given Bufford a hundred dollars or whatever he felt would be needed to please Bufford and get him to back-off, Tannen wanted the money more than he wanted revenge and he only threated to shoot Doc after Doc refused to pay and if Doc would've paid Tannen then Tannen would've seen Doc as a "source" for money and would've been far less likely to kill him.
But if Doc and Marty were heading home anyway they could've paid Tannen off to buy the time they needed to repair the DeLorean and/or outfit it to work. The time-crunch in the movie is artificial because there's any number of ways it could've been solved. It's not as "tight" as the time-crunch in the first movie.
Doc could've just given Bufford a hundred dollars or whatever he felt would be needed to please Bufford and get him to back-off, Tannen wanted the money more than he wanted revenge and he only threated to shoot Doc after Doc refused to pay and if Doc would've paid Tannen then Tannen would've seen Doc as a "source" for money and would've been far less likely to kill him.
^ I'm not so sure about that. Buford was obviously spoiling for a fight. He probably *would* have shot Doc even if he'd gotten his money.
Precisely. Why would Tannen shoot a guy he can easily extort money from? He wouldn't.
And robbed himself of an easy source of future cash? Most illogical, even for a dimwit bully.
Yes.
I don't think Buford would have killed Doc had Doc paid Buford immediately, but the refusal probably pissed him off enough that any later payment wouldn't have been enough. Of course, they could have had Marty pay off the debt, had Buford accept the payment as ending the debt, and still had Marty piss off Buford at the big party. It would have led to the same ends.
Buford did not seem particularly intelligent, at least not enough that he would think that far ahead to realize that he could have continually got more money out of Doc later on.
I mean, Buford was dumb enough to shoot his horse rather than bring it back to Doc, what does THAT tell you?
Tannens, as a rule, fulfill the function of dumb brutes in the BTTF films. Probably the only time that a Tannen *isn't* one is when Biff goes into auto detailing.
I mean, Buford was dumb enough to shoot his horse rather than bring it back to Doc, what does THAT tell you?
Tannens, as a rule, fulfill the function of dumb brutes in the BTTF films. Probably the only time that a Tannen *isn't* one is when Biff goes into auto detailing.
I mean, Buford was dumb enough to shoot his horse rather than bring it back to Doc, what does THAT tell you?
That he was hurt, pissed and took it out on his horse? Have you never been angry and frustrated with something minor, snapped, and just said "fuck it" and broke something/did something stupid?
And, for what it is worth, we don't know that he shot the horse for throwing the shoe. For all we know throwing the shoe, and the resulting stumble/tossing of Bufford, caused the horse to become injured requiring it to be shot. Or he shot the horse a week later for an unrelated incident.
If Doc went up to Bufford with a hundie, I doubt Bufford would've responded by shooting Doc. Doc could've done it right there at the festival, turned around, apologized, said he thought it over, and handed money over to Bufford. Problem solved and Bufford would've been over it. Afterall, Bufford seemed to pretty quickly forget the "anger" and desire to shoot "Clint" after getting a spittoon thrown at him.
Basically, Nu-Marty does the exact same things in the past as Marty-Classic, so, as time in the BTTF-verse appears to be single string and quite durable, Nu-Marty just fades into old-Marty, like Old-Biff fading out
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