How Would you Change S7 Dukat?

[DevilEyes]

Cardassians didn't invade Bajor for ethnic cleansing.

Neither did Hitler. He wanted space. People were in his way, so were to be removed or enslave, but they were not main target (I talk about nationals of invaded countries, not Jews, to make it clear, as many seem to forget Jews weren't the only victims of that war).

Cardassians wanted resources and Bajorans were to work for them. There wasn't any plan to exterminate them all as the main goal.

I didn't say they did, I said the Nazi' did. However Devil Eyes stated: Xenophobia can lead to isolationism, expulsion or mistreatment of immigrants, or ethnic cleansing and genocide. But it does not lead to invading other countries or subjugating their population, to imperialism and colonialism. This would be more likely connected to and justified through nationalism/chauvinism and racism.


Which is why I asked: Can't they be both?

Of course they can, but they don't have to be, and in this case they were not. You mentioned the Klingons and the Maquis earlier and I forgot to comment on that - this doesn't speak to xenophobia at all: the Maquis were not even a nationality/ethnicity but a terrorist group that fought against the Cardassians, and the Klingons were an antagonistic empire that had been to war with the Cardassians and had invaded the Cardassian Union. When Dukat says "there will be no single Maquis or Klingon on Cardassia", he is promising to destroy a terrorist group and to kill or drive away every soldier of the Klingon Empire. If he had said there would be no Humans left anywhere in the Cardassian Union, or no [insert members of any non-Cardassian population living in territory of the Cardassian Union], that would've been an xenophobic statement.

Could be in theory, but in case of Dukat it's not the case.

Cardassians weren't xenophobes, eg. they didn't blame Bajorans for lack of resources on their planet. They had complex of superiority, were aggressive, racist, cruel, but not xenophobic. If they were - no alien would be allowed in the Union, but the Cardassians co-operated with other powers, aliens and governments. As said earlier - Dukat invited the Dominion, which automatically proves he was not xenophobic.

You don't believe it's possable to make allies with others as a means to an end while deep inside still being xenophobic?

The way I'm viewing it is: Is comparing it to homophobia.
You could work next to someone homosexual and yet still have them for what they are but have too because they had a skill you require. Once that job was done, they'd be gone too. The Dominion had just the Dukat needed for his plans but he was plotting with Damar against them the whole time. Aren't there degrees of the levels of xenophobia?

In the end, wasn't Dukat planning on revolting and exspelling the Dominion from Cardassia once they won the war? Isn't that what he meant when he kept saying; "He wanted to make Cardassia whole again."?

Again, how does that speak to xenophobia? Were, for instance, the Hungarians or Czechs who wanted Russian military out of their country xenophobic? It's one thing to resent a foreign military presence in one's county, if that was a sign of xenophobia, you'd probably find the majority of people in the world to be xenophobic. A xenophobe would resent the presence of immigrants or foreign civilians living in their county, foreign journalists, writers, filmmakers, they would resent immigrant workers, bakers, grocery store owners, and so on.

Cardassians wanted resources and Bajorans were to work for them. There wasn't any plan to exterminate them all as the main goal.

That is correct, and this is why the parallel between Bajorans and Jews in nazi Germany is very inaccurate. Nazi ideology was based on the idea of the "master race", but the Jews were not just seen as an inferior race, like Slavic peoples, for instance: Jews were blamed for all the problems of the German people and seen as a vermin and a danger to the 'purity' of the Aryan race, and the goal was to exterminate them. The Cardassian Union never had this kind of policy towards the Bajorans (even though perhaps some Cardassians, in the later period of the Occupation, might have developed such a hatred for Bajorans that they wanted to kill as many of them as possible: this seemed to have been the case with Gul Dar'heel). The Cardassian policy was a classic imperialistic/colonialist policy, they saw themselves as superior to the Bajorans and wanted to invade and annex Bajor and use it for its resources, and use the Bajoran people as slave work force.

 

[exodus]

Cardassians didn't invade Bajor for ethnic cleansing.

Neither did Hitler. He wanted space. People were in his way, so were to be removed or enslave, but they were not main target (I talk about nationals of invaded countries, not Jews, to make it clear, as many seem to forget Jews weren't the only victims of that war).

Cardassians wanted resources and Bajorans were to work for them. There wasn't any plan to exterminate them all as the main goal.

I didn't say they did, I said the Nazi' did. However Devil Eyes stated: Xenophobia can lead to isolationism, expulsion or mistreatment of immigrants, or ethnic cleansing and genocide. But it does not lead to invading other countries or subjugating their population, to imperialism and colonialism. This would be more likely connected to and justified through nationalism/chauvinism and racism.


Which is why I asked: Can't they be both?

Of course they can, but they don't have to be, and in this case they were not. You mentioned the Klingons and the Maquis earlier and I forgot to comment on that - this doesn't speak to xenophobia at all: the Maquis were not even a nationality/ethnicity but a terrorist group that fought against the Cardassians, and the Klingons were an antagonistic empire that had been to war with the Cardassians and had invaded the Cardassian Union. When Dukat says "there will be no single Maquis or Klingon on Cardassia", he is promising to destroy a terrorist group and to kill or drive away every soldier of the Klingon Empire. If he had said there would be no Humans left anywhere in the Cardassian Union, or no [insert members of any non-Cardassian population living in territory of the Cardassian Union], that would've been an xenophobic statement.

You don't believe it's possable to make allies with others as a means to an end while deep inside still being xenophobic?

The way I'm viewing it is: Is comparing it to homophobia.
You could work next to someone homosexual and yet still have them for what they are but have too because they had a skill you require. Once that job was done, they'd be gone too. The Dominion had just the Dukat needed for his plans but he was plotting with Damar against them the whole time. Aren't there degrees of the levels of xenophobia?

In the end, wasn't Dukat planning on revolting and exspelling the Dominion from Cardassia once they won the war? Isn't that what he meant when he kept saying; "He wanted to make Cardassia whole again."?

Again, how does that speak to xenophobia? Were, for instance, the Hungarians or Czechs who wanted Russian military out of their country xenophobic? It's one thing to resent a foreign military presence in one's county, if that was a sign of xenophobia, you'd probably find the majority of people in the world to be xenophobic. A xenophobe would resent the presence of immigrants or foreign civilians living in their county, foreign journalists, writers, filmmakers, they would resent immigrant workers, bakers, grocery store owners, and so on.

As I understand it, xenophobia is the hate & fear of anything forigen or alien. Anybody non-Caradassian to a Cardassian is forigen. Klingons, Maquis, Romulans, Humans, Etc. are not Cardassian or from Cardassia, so would be foregin or alien to them. Cardassians didn't want anybody non-Cardassian colonizing in the space. Xenophobia doesn't have to be at such extremes erasing an entire species. There are degrees to such things. Some folks are radical about it and others are not.
Aren't there degrees to xenophobia because honetly, I feel like we're saying similar things but defining it by different degrees?