The problem with Voyager wasn't the characters but the premise

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Tuvok, as acting captain, could chose whomever he'd like. I would imagine it would have been someone he would consider good counsel.

If Seven was there at that time, she would be my first pick form some ungawdly reason. However, as it stands, I imagine he would have given it some time to evaluate what was left of his senior staff and gone with whomever he felt was good for the position.

I think Paris would have stepped up to the plate pretty well for the position. He has a little Riker in him.

 

[Praxius]

..... I think Paris would have stepped up to the plate pretty well for the position. He has a little Riker in him.

Heh.... he had a bit of Riker in him alright.... the Womanizing, Charming-Horn-Dog part.

 

[Ensign Johnson]

Seven would make a better commander than Chakotay, she challenged Janeway's decisions far more often. Trouble was she also defied Janeway more often while Chakotay was basically Janeway's bitch.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

..... I think Paris would have stepped up to the plate pretty well for the position. He has a little Riker in him.

Heh.... he had a bit of Riker in him alright.... the Womanizing, Charming-Horn-Dog part.

Not really. That was more-or-less a front, which we learned later on. Tuvok would have as well.

what I meant by 'a little Riker in him' was that he was apt to speak his mind and good at rallying the troops, which is needed in an XO.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Tuvok didn't see his captain for 2months. I'm sure he thought he was the full captain before janeway had left. We say they were on the planet for two months but how many more months, another two? three? Did they hang out in orbit of the planet where the Doctor was trying to find a cure for the disease before they gave up and left Chakotay and janeway behind?

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Not long, I can tell you that. It would be very uncharacteristic of Janeway to allow her ship and crew to waste much time trying to find a cure for just two members of her crew if it meant preventing the ship from moving forward to get home.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But they turned back and backtracked to pick up Janeway once they found a cure. A month away from the planet, a month back to the planet, and then a month till they start trekking through new space.

A month of space they traversed three times. They would have had to have stopped off at a planet or two for "this and that" or at the least: a breather. This same hypothetical planet(s) they visited three times in the course of three months between where they left the captain and found the cure could have had some stryfe of adventure happening there-on that the crew could have noted, moved on, renoted, moved on, and noted for a third time and moved on.

Fuck me, but isn't that a period of their journey worth cataloguing?

How long did it take them to take Neelix back to that Moon Colony of Tallax in Jetrel? That must have been a huge detour and it all happened during an ad break.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

You said "Janeway", not Tuvok.

It was Tuvok's descion to go back and get them, not Janeway's.

Your argument holds no water here.

If Janeway had ordered them to return, then, yes, you have a point. But, she didn't. She gave direct orders for them to not turn around.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I looked back over my last few posts, and no I didn't.

I'm not ragging on Janeway today.

Janeway off the planet would have been mostly in stasis or almost dying. She had the capacity to have input into two things, Jack and shit, and jack just left town.

After the bug bites it was completely Tuvoks job because Janeway was sleeping.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Planet Surface] EMH [OC]: Sickbay to the Captain. This is the Doctor speaking.
JANEWAY: You've brought us out of stasis. I assume you have news.
[Sickbay]
EMH: Yes. Our sensors show your vital signs are normal. How are you feeling?
[Planet Surface]
JANEWAY: We're fine. How long were we in stasis?
[Sickbay]
EMH: A total of seventeen days.
JANEWAY [OC]: That long?
EMH: I wanted to exhaust every possibility of finding a cure.
JANEWAY [OC]: And?
EMH: I regret to inform you that I have been unsuccessful.

So to answer my own question, after the original mission, and affliction, they spent, an additional 17 days in orbit under the command of "acting" Captain Tuvok.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

I looked back over my last few posts, and no I didn't.

I'm not ragging on Janeway today.

Must be a knee jerk reaction I have.

My apologies.

JANEWAY: I'm turning over command of the ship to you on a permanent basis. Your orders are to resume a course for the Alpha Quadrant.

TORRES: So we're just going to abandon them on this planet?
TUVOK: Those were Captain Janeway's express orders.
PARIS: But you're captain now. You can rescind them.
TUVOK: To what end?
TORRES: I can't believe we haven't been able to find a cure for an insect bite.
KES: The Doctor hasn't deactivated himself for a month. He's tried everything. He searched every database, attempted the most drastic research. You can't fault him.
NEELIX: I can tell you the morale of the crew is going to suffer if we leave them behind.
TUVOK: Not if, Mister Neelix. When we leave them behind. The decision has been made. We will of course, provide them with everything they'll need for their survival and comfort. I am arranging for a modular shelter to be transported to the surface. They'll have all the technology they need, weapons, tricorders, a replicator.
TORRES: You talk as though it were a camping trip. They have to spend the rest of their lives down there.
TUVOK: That is not a certainty. Captain Janeway intends to continue researching the virus. She is an able scientist, and may eventually be able to effect a cure. They have a type nine shuttlecraft at their disposal if it becomes possible for them to leave the planet.
PARIS: Type nine shuttlecraft has a top speed of warp four. It won't take them more than, oh, about seven hundred years to get home.

My interpretation of this is that Janeway did not intend for them to make the trek back and kill that much time.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Yes?

I think you're having trouble recognizing that you're agreeing with me again.

It was unforseen that they would find a cure.

There was no need to return.

It took a month to get back.

What if it took them a year or two years to go back and cure Janeway and Chakotay? 5 years? Ten? At what point would they have decided that it was too much effort to go back and get their former captain after randomly comming across a cure?

 

[SPCTRE]

I'm under the impression VOY's premise in and of itself wasn't the problem, but rather UPN forcing the show to be a kind of TNG in the DQ.

 

[exodus]

Tuvok, as acting captain, could chose whomever he'd like. I would imagine it would have been someone he would consider good counsel.

If Seven was there at that time, she would be my first pick form some ungawdly reason. However, as it stands, I imagine he would have given it some time to evaluate what was left of his senior staff and gone with whomever he felt was good for the position.

I think Paris would have stepped up to the plate pretty well for the position. He has a little Riker in him.

Seven isn't Starfleet trained & both she and Paris are undisappline. I like Tom but can he even follow a direct order without mouthing off? Based on "Worse Case Scenario", Tuvok didn't exactly trust Tom either.

I'm guessing Lt. Carey would get the position.
He also is the only other senior officer of official Starfleet rank left on Voyager.

 

[Anwar]

I'm under the impression VOY's premise in and of itself wasn't the problem, but rather UPN forcing the show to be a kind of TNG in the DQ.

There were still some problems within the premise itself. The Maquis, and knowing where they were all along are my two main problems.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Picard was able to identify which galaxy he was in after they went woosh in "where no one has been before" in the first season of TNG. Kirk probably did the same in a couple episodes i don't recall, and in fair price data knew exactly where they were in the DQ with just using the sensors in a shuttle. Starfleet and man and the Vulcans for half a million years before that had been mapping the heavens with all sorts of technology. To be lost, all that would have had to have had happened was that their library computer had been wiped clean.

Carey logically must have been a Lieutenant Junior grade, since otherwise it would have been difficult for B'Elanna to boss around Carey since her appointed rank was pulled from Janeways ass and there was no point for Carey to be pushed around by an underline if Janeways ass thought it didn't need to be so, and besides job equals rank. If you get promoted, then you have proved that you are ready for more complex responsibilities and Lietenant junior grade is all that being the Chief Engineer on basically a tiny frigate merits (Not that Tom did less work when he was demoted or Tuvok did different work when he was promoted, but if they were not lost in space, then that is how things are supposed to work.).

Carey would have been good though. Nice to see Josh too.

but Tom was a full Lieutenant (according to some sources and not others. big fight.) with real starfleet rank pips given a field promotion unlike the Maquis who had their provisional rank badges.

Though who took over tactical and security, or was Tuvok doing three jobs?

 

[Saquist]

I'm under the impression VOY's premise in and of itself wasn't the problem, but rather UPN forcing the show to be a kind of TNG in the DQ.

I was okay with that. It was the characters I was interested in.

 

[Anwar]

Picard was able to identify which galaxy he was in after they went woosh in "where no one has been before" in the first season of TNG. Kirk probably did the same in a couple episodes i don't recall, and in fair price data knew exactly where they were in the DQ with just using the sensors in a shuttle. Starfleet and man and the Vulcans for half a million years before that had been mapping the heavens with all sorts of technology.

I know, but I'm saying that if the show ended being accepted enough by the audience they wouldn't care how unrealistic it was that they didn't know where they were. They would've just accepted that "Okay, the showrunners wanted them to not be able to to just go home even though they should be able to find it. But this is a good enough show I can just not care about that stuff and just watch their damn adventures"

I mean, no one in Farscape complained about how none of the characters could find THEIR ways back to their homeplanets.

 

[Guy Gardener]

They were slaves, grunts, priests, hicks and kings on farscape. Astrogeography wasn't their bag baby.

If Voyager's crew couldn't get home then their job is to found a colony and breed or kill themselves because they are not allowed to let that technolgy fall into alien hands who might be bastards.

I had an interesting thought about the whole leaving the resolutions word three times.

They're not, most of them are not going to get home by flying at conventional speeds across the shortest route, so really what they had here was the opportunity leave the resolutions planet in three mostly different directions each course a little less direct that the last in the hopes that they would fid a friendly race that could help them, technology or a wormhole.

 

[Anwar]

If Voyager's crew couldn't get home then their job is to found a colony and breed or kill themselves because they are not allowed to let that technolgy fall into alien hands who might be bastards.

Yes, so the series would be about finding a way home instead of knowing how to get home in the first episode. This justifies them sticking around regions of space so the writers can better flesh out aliens and give enough external storylines to drive the series before finding some plot device to help them get home in the end. After all, being away from Earth was nothing but a plot device to get them away from the existing Trekverse.

 

[kimc]

Seven would make a better commander than Chakotay, she challenged Janeway's decisions far more often. Trouble was she also defied Janeway more often while Chakotay was basically Janeway's bitch.

Seven still had a lot to learn about humanity. She was also an emotional adolescent - I have to wonder if her "defiance" was a move to appeal to the desired male adolescent demographic.