The problem with Voyager wasn't the characters but the premise
- Thread starter DarthTom
- Start date
I have the deepest respect for all the poor bastards who made it out sane the other end of Howard the Duck.
The only thing that bugged me about Voyager was, after season 3 they never showed them on away missions. Nearly every story takes place on the ship. If it wasn't for holodeck stories, we'd never get to see another environment. I think allot of issues with supplies & repairs would have been cleared up if they showed them going to get stuff.
I think the problem wasn't the premise itself, it was that the show sort-of ignored the potential of its own premise. The potential was in that we'd get to see what would happen to a crew that wasn't always being given orders by Starfleet, supplies from Starfleet, no safe harbor for repairs, no backup for big problems, no 'breaks' for the crew. Sounds like a pretty exciting premise?
The only problem was, the show didn't seem to have the imagination to live up to the potential of the premise. The answer to all of those questions seemed to be: Not much. Things don't break down, crews continue as normal, everyone stays exactly the same for seven years. Again, I love the show, but this was by far and away the most disappointing aspect.
The only problem was, the show didn't seem to have the imagination to live up to the potential of the premise. The answer to all of those questions seemed to be: Not much. Things don't break down, crews continue as normal, everyone stays exactly the same for seven years. Again, I love the show, but this was by far and away the most disappointing aspect.
It was really a case of "not allowed to explore their premise", UPN wouldn't let them tell arc storytelling, have sustained damages to the ship, or tension amongst the crew.
But then again, the main way Galactica got their premise to work was by having there be no aliens in the entire universe aside from humans and cylons and having the Galactica be an older ship without up to date technology. In the Trekverse, those things just wouldn't happen since it was made clear that all Quadrants are full of life, and their own tech level is sufficient to fix up the ship.
And if the ship ever got THAT damaged...well, they were never going to get it fixed and the show would end then and there.
As for people changing, in real life people DON'T change that much as years go by. It really does take a long time to fundamentally change into a totally different person.
Though WHY the audience would want the characters they grew attached to become radically different people who have 0% in common with what they were like a year ago, I don't know.
But then again, the main way Galactica got their premise to work was by having there be no aliens in the entire universe aside from humans and cylons and having the Galactica be an older ship without up to date technology. In the Trekverse, those things just wouldn't happen since it was made clear that all Quadrants are full of life, and their own tech level is sufficient to fix up the ship.
And if the ship ever got THAT damaged...well, they were never going to get it fixed and the show would end then and there.
As for people changing, in real life people DON'T change that much as years go by. It really does take a long time to fundamentally change into a totally different person.
Though WHY the audience would want the characters they grew attached to become radically different people who have 0% in common with what they were like a year ago, I don't know.
They also had a network that was willing to let them take creative chances as well as the ability to interact with fans online a the show progressed. Voyager started while the Internet was still in its infancy and UPN kept a stranglehold on the creative process.
Despite that thanks to the characters/acting a show worth watching (imo) was created.
Janeway, Seven & Tuvok are bland?
That's a first.
Tuvok IMO was hilarious.
Tim Russ had great comedic timing with his scarcastic wit.
"Shall I flog them as well?"
Neelix: "Mr Vulcan, I was thinking about the security announcement. Would you perfer "Intruder Alert, Intruder Alert" or the more dramatic "Intruders Amoung Us! Danger, Danger! Intruders Amoung Us!!"?
Tuvok: *sigh*"Mr Neelix, Intruder Alert will surfice. Thank you!"
Neelix: "Ahhh. Go with a classic. Excellent choice!"
Tuvok to Seven: ".....and you think you have issues?"
Tuvok: *sigh*"Mr Neelix, Intruder Alert will surfice. Thank you!"
Neelix: "Ahhh. Go with a classic. Excellent choice!"
Tuvok to Seven: ".....and you think you have issues?"
Well, the net may not have been THAT important since Farscape worked without the Internet. But again, it had a better network that wouldn't interfere.
I still say the show should've been syndicated, and not made until a year after DS9 ended. And hired a new writing staff.
Basically, do what Berman WANTED to do.
Your solutions seem sensible (though I liked VOY as is), but please don't turn Harry and B'Elanna into minor characters! It would have been nice to have more recurring minor characters, though. And I would agree that just because they had sn ensemble cast, they didn't *have* to have to make sure each season had one or two "Harry shows", "Chakotay shows", etc. Let the stories drive screen time, not the other way around.
Syndicating would have been better, I agree. And letting at least a few more years pass before starting VOY would have only helped; at worst, they'd have better SFX.
Syndicating would have been better, I agree. And letting at least a few more years pass before starting VOY would have only helped; at worst, they'd have better SFX.
The reason NuBSG is able to have the Galactica get more damaged over time is because it was easier and cheaper to do CGI models for the ship in 2003 then it would have been for VOY in 1995.
Also, the internal sets of Galactica never changed, they just had them be dirty and used to begin with and used that shaky camera stuff. With VOY they would've had to have kept changing the sets as the show went on to make it look more damaged.
Farscape never changed the sets either, but no one seemed to care. They hardly ever damaged Moya either but no one seemed to care. Double standard, I suppose.
Harry was just a bad character, which was mostly because of Wang. Torres needed more work done as well, she needed to act more Roxanne Dawson's real age (late 30s) than a 20-something.
Other recurring minor characters, well I don't see much point. I mean, Farscape didn't have a lot of those either but no one minded.
Also, the internal sets of Galactica never changed, they just had them be dirty and used to begin with and used that shaky camera stuff. With VOY they would've had to have kept changing the sets as the show went on to make it look more damaged.
Farscape never changed the sets either, but no one seemed to care. They hardly ever damaged Moya either but no one seemed to care. Double standard, I suppose.
Harry was just a bad character, which was mostly because of Wang. Torres needed more work done as well, she needed to act more Roxanne Dawson's real age (late 30s) than a 20-something.
Other recurring minor characters, well I don't see much point. I mean, Farscape didn't have a lot of those either but no one minded.
I was wondering how old Torres really was? Considering that a Klingon can be fully matured by the age of 8 or nine and then tick on gracefully into their prime for another century or so, if we compare Alexander and Kang's states of health.
That would have been an excellent moment between Kes and Torres "Shhh... Don't tell anyone but I'm only 8."
That would have been an excellent moment between Kes and Torres "Shhh... Don't tell anyone but I'm only 8."
And that whole "blame my alien half for my problems" thing was...well, not that good to be frank. They could've had her have genuine personality problems that had nothing to do with being a hybrid.
I mean, it worked for Spock because it hardly ever came up and most of the time he was treated as a full alien and not a human.
I mean, it worked for Spock because it hardly ever came up and most of the time he was treated as a full alien and not a human.
I liked Torres even though her whining about being half Klingon was annoying. I didn't think her marrying Paris was interesting at all, I preferred her clashing with Janeway storylines (and later clashing with Seven). Harry Kim was a pointless character, seemed like he was just there to be mocked. I say they should have killed off Chakotay as punishment for wooden acting, he didn't serve a purpose since Janeway ignored his opinions most of the time anyway.
It seems to me that Tuvok would have made a better first officer, but I guess that would have been too much like copying TOS having a Vulcan XO...
Tuvok was in line to be XO.
However, Chakotay was a political appointment to make sure the Maquis feel represented and less like prison labour to avoid any mutiny or civil strife.
So honestly that means that the XO position will always be staffed by a Maquis inso as long as a Starfleet Officer is the Captain, and Tuvok will never be XO until there is a Maquis who is Captain, unless there's some random accident that reduces the Maquis to numbers (equal or less than Equal the Equinox 5 or the Borg Colony.) not no longer worthy of representation in the command structure.
Which means that (after many people are killed) Tom or B"Elanna's ascendence to the top will be contingent on the Balance of Maquis vs Fleet in the Captain XO positions and not who is best for the job.
However, Chakotay was a political appointment to make sure the Maquis feel represented and less like prison labour to avoid any mutiny or civil strife.
So honestly that means that the XO position will always be staffed by a Maquis inso as long as a Starfleet Officer is the Captain, and Tuvok will never be XO until there is a Maquis who is Captain, unless there's some random accident that reduces the Maquis to numbers (equal or less than Equal the Equinox 5 or the Borg Colony.) not no longer worthy of representation in the command structure.
Which means that (after many people are killed) Tom or B"Elanna's ascendence to the top will be contingent on the Balance of Maquis vs Fleet in the Captain XO positions and not who is best for the job.
When Janeway and Chakotay were left on a planet Tuvok was acting Captain. If Janeway and Chakotay had not returned to Voyager who would have been second in command after Tuvok? Paris? Because he would be awful. I don't think Torres would make a good commander either.
