Torchwood series 4 details

[captcalhoun]

the only relevant part of what Sci said was the bit that went:

You have a collection of islands, commonly called the British Isles. This archipelago's name is sometimes objected to by the Irish, who object to it all being called British, but I'm going to use that term for convenience.

The British Isles is comprised of two major islands and lots of tiny little islands. The two big islands are the island of Great Britain, which is to the east, and the island of Ireland, which is to the west.

On the island of Great Britain, there exists England, Scotland, and Wales. On the island of Ireland, there exists Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland (whose formal name is just "Ireland," but which I'll call the Republic of Ireland to avoid confusion with the island).

England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland are all part of a single sovereign state called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The Republic of Ireland used to be part of the United Kingdom

the rest was unnecessary, especially since he could've just as easily pointed the guy to the original fucking article on wikipedia.

 

[captcalhoun]

...well, no. I never said it did, and absolutely anyone would tell you it isn't. I said pretty clearly it is a term used to wind up the Welsh by the English.

most English folks i know just wind up the welsh by banging on about your footie team being even shite-er than ours and sheep-shagging and you all coming from the valleys and mining coal and such...

 

[HappyDayRiot]

Yeah, we do provide plenty of ammunition

Not the coal-mining bit though. That's proper historical and industrial that is, boyo.

 

[DimesDan]

Yeah, we do provide plenty of ammunition

Not the coal-mining bit though. That's proper historical and industrial that is, boyo.

And I'm sure if you look into deep enough, there are reports of Sheep being molested by Welsh folk. I bet it does get lonely in the long winter months with their warm woolly coats look appealing to keep warm.

 

[HappyDayRiot]

There was actually a story about that very thing happening not that far away from I live a few months ago. Oh the embarrassment!

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Ooh, are you a descendent of Eric Bloodaxe perhaps?

I don't think so. But possibly of Uchtred the bold, a couple Dolfins and an Arkil, and various others.

 

[Sci]

Wonderful, a condescending Yank witterling on about the UK and state of the union.

There was a guy sitting there saying he didn't realize it was wrong to refer to the entire U.K. as "England" and that he'd assumed Ireland was part of it.

I don't think writing a short little thing about the differences between the islands, the constituent countries, and the sovereign states was unreasonable or condescending.

I know you don't like me, Dimesdan, but seriously, get the fuck over it and stop turning every sentence I write into an excuse to attack me.

There are several people on this board and in the section who live either in the UK or in Republic of Ireland, if they had an issue with it, I'm sure they would have said, we could have explained to him why he was wrong, no one did,

Erm, plenty of people have been popping up in this thread to say that equating England with the U.K. or Ireland with the U.K. was wrong. For instance:

^^ I'm good with England, Scotland, and Wales (esp. thanks to Torchwood actually...) but the Irish thing throws me off (when it comes to grouping and unions).

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland but not part of Great Britain.

Or here:

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland but not part of Great Britain.

Over here we never say "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" which would of course make it quite obvious. It's just "United Kingdom". Maybe I'm just speaking for myself but I don't think it's as obvious that Ireland isn't part of the UK, I tend to think of that whole cluster of islands as one thing. I can make sense of it intellectually but it takes me a beat occasionally, it feels more natural to lump it all together.

We never say it that way either to be honest. It's just the UK or Britain but there's a distinction and people do get irate if you get it wrong.

Or here:

I hope you're not including Ireland(not Northern Ireland) in that, because then you're merging two completely independent countries together. That would really be like calling the US and Canada one country. Oh, and I'm confused that you keep talking about a "cluster of islands". Which islands are you thinking about? Sure there are a bunch small islands in Scotland, but talking about them when discussing countries would be like calling the US a cluster of islands because of the Florida keys.

So I'm not the only person to correct someone else in this thread like you just claimed.

so why assume you should explain in your condescending manner

Providing factual information is not condescending. Posting something like this, on the other hand?

When I think of "England" I think of that entire set of islands including Ireland and Scotland... sorry...

And when I think of "apples" I think of all the fruits, including oranges and bananas.

Or:

You really shouldn't. England is only one of four political subdivisions of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland: England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.

I have to admit I sometimes get fuzzy on which is Great Britain and which is the United Kingdom and sometimes use "Brit" for the whole lot.

I'm sorry I still view the U.K and surrounding areas as part of the
Roman
Empire!!

Vivat diu Roma libera

Or:

Almost a thousand years ago England had an army and killed enough people till Ireland, Scotland and Wales bent over and agreed to pay taxes and kill frogs for the English crown.

Ever see how Canadians respond to being called American?

That is condescending.

Go piss at one of them if you want to bitch at someone for being condescending. The only reason you interpreted my post as condescending is that you dislike me personally.

If someone wants to call the entirety of the UK, England, that's cool with me. How ever many centuries it's been and the like, to me, it's a non issue and to many people I know in Real Life, it's a non issue and they equate someone complaining of not recognising the different sections of the UK with the BNP.

Good for you. Meanwhile, my post restricted itself to factual information, not evaluations of a given opinion about the appropriateness of a given set of terminology.

Wales is still referred to as the principality, by the way.

This has no legal basis, however. http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...ith-wales-dubbed-principality-91466-26777027/

...well, no. I never said it did, and absolutely anyone would tell you it doesn't have a legal basis. I said pretty clearly it is a term used to wind up the Welsh by the English. I'm not surprised the UN refer to it that way as if its fact. Hardly any supranational bodies get the place right. There was a map of the EU released a few years ago that didn't even have Wales on it.

I'll thank you not to quote my own local newspapers at me and lecture me about the country I have lived in all my life by the way. Unlike you I do not need to use Wikipedia and Google to talk about it.

Fair enough -- I misunderstood what you meant by that and thought you were trying to say that there's still a legal basis for it. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[diankra]

Maybe this is a subject for a sticky? Britain, England, Wales and Ireland, and why they are not synonyms?
Might turn into a bit of a Neutral Zone shout, I'll admit.

Anyway, my broadbrush summary:
Scotland is the northern bit of Great Britain (the largest island), the bit that the Romans never took over (c.50AD-408AD).
Wales is the western bit of Roman Britain that the Anglo-Saxons didn't take over after Roman forces stopped defending Britain (5th/6th century).
England is the bits of Roman Britain that the Anglo-Saxons did take over in the 6th century.
Two hundred years later the Danes (Vikings) get involved, invading northern England (but end up settling with Alfred the Great to share the country), and then in 1066 the Normans (also Vikings, aka Norsemen, but ones who'd taken over northern France - Normandy - and settled) invade England under Willliam the B!st!rd/Conquerer.
Last successful invasion of England, probably because there were three claimants for the throne: Harold (I) Godwinson had defeated the Norwegian King Harald Hadrada's invasion in the north, and then had to march his army the whole length of the country to engage William - and lose.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Two hundred years later the Danes (Vikings) get involved, invading northern England

That was when my ancestors came over.

Danes: "Hi, we're here to invade"
Britons: "Oh no, not again"

 

[captcalhoun]

and no-one's invaded since.

 

[WillsBabe]

and no-one's invaded since.

 

[DimesDan]

snip

Have you actually been here or are you getting all your information from the interwebz and books?

 

[HappyDayRiot]

and no-one's invaded since.

Pity. You knew where you stood with a good invasion. Much more straightforward than the horrors of modern warfare.

Apology accepted Sci.

 

[Sci]

snip

Have you actually been here or are you getting all your information from the interwebz and books?

So now you're just engaging in nationalist attacks? "No one can say anything factual about the U.K. unless they've been here! We're too sacred for anyone to be able to learn about our country otherwise. Facts are now wholly dependent upon visitation status! Truthiness!"

No, Dimesdan, I have not yet had the good fortune of visiting your country. I want to, very much -- it's the country that my great-grandmother came from when she came to the United States, it's the country where we still have a branch of the family living, and it's the country that we have a cultural connection to in our family. I have every intention of visiting the United Kingdom at some point once I have the money to do so.

 

[DimesDan]

snip

Have you actually been here or are you getting all your information from the interwebz and books?

So now you're just engaging in nationalist attacks? "No one can say anything factual about the U.K. unless they've been here! We're too sacred for anyone to be able to learn about our country otherwise. Facts are now wholly dependent upon visitation status! Truthiness!"

No, Dimesdan, I have not yet had the good fortune of visiting your country. I want to, very much -- it's the country that my great-grandmother came from when she came to the United States, it's the country where we still have a branch of the family living, and it's the country that we have a cultural connection to in our family. I have every intention of visiting the United Kingdom at some point once I have the money to do so.

No then? Are you a lawyer or something like that? Using eighty-two words when one would have been fine

and for your rant in your first paragraph, read into that question which ever way you wish, I was curious if you've been here or not.

 

[Sci]

Have you actually been here or are you getting all your information from the interwebz and books?

So now you're just engaging in nationalist attacks? "No one can say anything factual about the U.K. unless they've been here! We're too sacred for anyone to be able to learn about our country otherwise. Facts are now wholly dependent upon visitation status! Truthiness!"

No, Dimesdan, I have not yet had the good fortune of visiting your country. I want to, very much -- it's the country that my great-grandmother came from when she came to the United States, it's the country where we still have a branch of the family living, and it's the country that we have a cultural connection to in our family. I have every intention of visiting the United Kingdom at some point once I have the money to do so.

No then? Are you a lawyer or something like that? Using eighty-two words when one would have been fine

How dare I say nice things about your country in an attempt to extend a kind gesture rather than perpetuating a pointless interpersonal conflict!

No, a single word would not have sufficed because of that very reason.

 

[Timby]

Christ on a bicycle, how did a thread about Torchwood end up becoming nationalistic dick-waving? Let's stick to the topic at hand (you know, that Torchwood show) and leave the geopolitical discussion to other forums.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

^Well... dick waving could very well be related to Torchwood...

 

[Timby]

I knew that was a poor choice of words as soon as I hit the reply button.

 

[Deckerd]

I'm having difficulty waving my dick.