Why did they destroy the Enterprise in ST3?

[Ssosmcin]

The thing I don't get is, why did they show Enterprise blowing up in the trailer?!

To make people go and watch it? Sure, but I think I would've saved that surprise for the movie.

Actually, I remember that totally freaking me out and making me want to see the film even more. I remember waiting for the damned preview to air before the premiere just so I could see if the bridge was gone (I didn't have a VCR yet). I couldn't tell, but I also remember not so much being upset over the Enterprise as being worried that some of the characters were being offed. I was younger then.

Really, there's something very sadistic about "on this the final voyage of the starship Enterprise" and seeing the ship in flames, with half of the saucer gone.

Anyway, as even Harve Bennett said, either about this or Spock's death, I don't remember, but "soon as the premiere audience sees it, the secret's out anyway."

 

[Anji]

I'll never understand why they blew up the ship. At the opening night performance I went to, after the Enterprise goes up in flames 1/3 of the audience left the theater.

 

[DonIago]

What were they -supposed- to do under the circumstances?

 

[Therin of Andor]

At the opening night performance I went to, after the Enterprise goes up in flames 1/3 of the audience left the theater.

I find that hard to believe. I saw a sneak preview, a gala premiere and opening night, all to packed houses, and no one left. Some shouting and sobbing, but not walk-outs.

Maybe a wacky local club planned it as a protest walk-out?

 

[Pauln6]

Yeah, wierd - I guess you can't please all of the people all fo the time. But then I also heard it reported that Nimoy received death threats when it broke that Spock was going to die. How's that for 'fan' logic?

 

[DonIago]

Hey, if the character's not going to live, why should the actor? (eye-roll)

 

[Dukhat]

Building a new model was, honestly, never necessary. Nor was it ever in the budget.

Star Trek II they didn't have the budget for it. Star Trek III, they destroyed the ship. (Not the model. But there was no intention to reuse the model.) Star Trek IV, we have, what? Ten seconds on screen? No need for a new model. Star Trek V, no budget (which is why Bran Ferran was hired in the first place). Star Trek VI, not in the budget (given how much of the salaries were deferred to get the film made) and there wasn't much likelihood of the model ever being needed again.

I'm not really following this logic. From what I've gathered reading this thread (and good information it is, too), is that once the Enterprise was destroyed, the plan was to transfer the crew to the Excelsior for future movies, mainly because it was such an easier model to film. Ok, fine, I'm with you so far. But then for whatever reason, the decision was made NOT to use the Excelsior as the new ship, so at the end of IV we see a Connie Ent-A, much to the chagrin of the VFX people, who hate that model. Again, fine. My question was, why wasn't a newer, easier-to-film model built for the Ent-A if they knew they couldn't use the Excelsior? Did it come down to time or budget? You say that it wasn't necessary; but I'm sure the filmmakers were looking ahead and thinking (especially with the huge success of IV) that there were going to be many more Trek movies, so why not build a better model? Yes, it would have been fine if Star Trek IV was going to be the last movie ever made. But there were no plans to end the run then.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I'm not really following this logic. From what I've gathered reading this thread (and good information it is, too), is that once the Enterprise was destroyed, the plan was to transfer the crew to the Excelsior for future movies, mainly because it was such an easier model to film.

I actually think the plan was to give Kirk an Excelsior class ship at some point. Such as, in ST IV, they think they're getting Excelsior but they see they're getting its hastily built twin, probably called Enterprise-A. Remember, there'd been the cut line in ST II that Sulu was being promoted to captain (and Excelsior was even named as his, IIRC; and it became McIntyre's running gag in her three novelizations) but in ST III we see a different captain on that ship (because Sulu had seemingly not reported for duty, still hanging around with Kirk after ST II and the death of Spock).

The DC Comics between ST III and IV gave Kirk the Excelsior itself, but I don't think that was necessarily the plan for any future canonical adventures. (There wasn't much of a plan at all; Bennett and Paramount were making it up as they went along, responding to box office receipts.)

My question was, why wasn't a newer, easier-to-film model built for the Ent-A if they knew they couldn't use the Excelsior?

In showbiz, you don't replace something that doesn't look like it needs replacing. As I understand it, the model created for the Excelsior was built of modern, lighter materials (of the day), but most importantly was of a design that it need never be in danger of time-wasting nacelle-strut wobble, or blown-globe replacement impossibility, or surface-sheen reflection of bluescreens, or pole repositioning.

To rectify all those problems on the TMP Enterprise model, at reasonable cost, would have required redesign of the nacelle angles, etc. Reliant, Grissom and Excelsior look very different to TMP's Enterprise because they were designed not to cause extensive problems (eg. time, lost hours of filming, money, weight) when trying to build, mount, light and film them.

I'm sure the filmmakers were looking ahead and thinking (especially with the huge success of IV) that there were going to be many more Trek movies, so why not build a better model?

The TMP model was extra heavy because it was the best way to film such a model in 1978. But tech was changing rapidly, and it was suddenly an incredibly expensive dinosaur. Nostalgia insisted that the Enterprise still have a familiar silhouette, and that type of shape was harder to make work in the early 80s.

 

[Dukhat]

Thanks for that info, Therin, although I have a question about the cut scene in TWOK referring to Sulu's promotion to captain of the Excelsior. At the time of the filming of this scene, how do we know that the "Excelsior" that Sulu refers to is the same ship that appeared in TSFS? "The Great Experiment" wasn't thought of until years after TWOK, right?

 

[Therin of Andor]

At the time of the filming of this scene, how do we know that the "Excelsior" that Sulu refers to is the same ship that appeared in TSFS?

We don't. It was merely a namedrop of a vessel. No discussion in the cut line about whether it was a good post or a bad post or an exciting post.

But there aren't ever two ships of the same name at the same time. Thus, ST III gives us more info that adds to the snippet we didn't even hear in ST II, but which had already become something of a fan legend at conventions and in news zines, ie. Sulu's first ship is called Excelsior, when he finally gets to it, that is.

 

[Mr Silver]

What really gets to me is why Sulu even got the Excelsior in the first place BTS: George Takei requested that Sulu would have his own ship in the final movie, probably due to his opinion(and theres some truth in it) that Shatner liked to put his character first and would often take take other characters storylines and/or write out other actors lines that make characters sound objective, thus taking away the whole "mystique" that Kirk always knew what he was doing, except when Spock and McCoy were involved

In Universe: Why Sulu over Chekov or Uhura? first of all in TWOK we see that Chekov is the first officer of another ship, while Sulu is training Cadets (granted we don't know whether Sulu had the First Officer rub or not, it appears that Kirk requested Sulu because he "Didn't know if these kids can steer")

*Spock received a promotion before TWOK, he was assigned to Captain The Enterprise when it became a Cadet Ship and was likely assigned as a Teacher at Starfleet Academy

*Scotty recieved a promotion in TSFS, probably as reward in the sense that it was recognition for his Years Of Service, Engineering Expertise and Technological Achievements, after all who says that Captain's have to "Captain Starships"? If Scotty was "inclined" to Captain a Starship, its likely, given his reputation that Starfleet would grant his request without reputation

*Uhura as a Commander was on track to First-Officer and eventually Captain

*Chekov in TMP was LT in comparison to Uhura and Sulu's LT Commander rank, prior to TWOK he must have accomplished a heck of a lot, in order to match their rank and overtake them on assignment

I can understand that the Enterprise crew worked so well with and trusted each other that they requested to remain together onboard the Enterprise-A, however after a while, especially since Kirk was planning to retire, the Officers started to think about their careers, we heard in TUC that Uhura was planning to lecture at Starfleet Academy, Scotty was planning on retiring, Spock was changing the direction of his career to Diplomacy (and leaving Starfleet) and McCoy was...well McCoy, therefore that leaves Sulu and Chekov, given their history of "Disobeying Direct Orders From Starfleet Command" it seems unlikely that they would assign one of them to the most advanced ship in the fleet, rather i'd imagine it was based upon recommendations from Kirk and Spock and higher ranking officers that Sulu was on good terms with

Its really confusing, considering experience-wise Chekov would have been more suited (Second In Command of a Starship) Thoughts?

 

[Therin of Andor]

What really gets to me is why Sulu even got the Excelsior in the first place BTS: George Takei requested that Sulu would have his own ship in the final movie

Takei requested nothing of the kind. Read his autobiography. He was stunned to open his script of ST VI to see that Sulu finally got his long-promised promotion. Takei was the last regular to sign up for ST II. Mere hours before principal photography started. He had no intention of doing it if all Sulu got to do was press some buttons at the helm console again. Harve Bennett explained that the story was pretty much settled, but what about a scene where Kirk tells Sulu about his upcoming promotion to captain? (The line used mentioned a ship called Excelsior, and Vonda McIntyre elaborated on this in her three novelizations; indeed, it actually matched up with her Sulu subplot in "The Entropy Effect", which is where Sulu's first name was coined). Takei agreed, and the story goes that Shatner deliberately fluffed his lines in each take so that the footage wasn't usable.

Takei also held out for better scenes in ST IV, and they gave him more bait: the meeting-his-own-grandfather scene, which was then spoiled when the child actor threw a tantrum and the light started to fade over San Francisco. They gave Sulu the Excelsior in ST VI because it had become a running gag in fandom (and the three McIntyre novelisations) that he was the rightful captain of that ship.

Shatner liked to put his character first and would often take take other characters storylines and/or write out other actors lines that make characters sound objective

Yvonne Craig (Marta in TOS) once told me that Shatner had lots of tricks to keep his face on camera and not the guest star's, including rolling his eyes to (jokingly) spoil their closeups. Supposedly all in fun, but not very fair.

In Universe: Why Sulu over Chekov or Uhura? Uhura as a Commander was on track to First-Officer and eventually Captain

Sulu and Uhura were always the same ranks in TOS (lieutenant), got the same advances in TMP (lieutenant commander), and ditto ST II (commander). But Sulu wore command gold in TOS, and Uhura wore red. Sulu was command track.

Chekov in TMP was LT in comparison to Uhura and Sulu's LT Commander rank, prior to TWOK he must have accomplished a heck of a lot, in order to match their rank and overtake them on assignment

As of ST II, Uhura was Admiral Kirk's administrative executive assistant at the Academy (publicity notes). She probably ran his office and taught classes. (Note how she ends up holding Kirk's birthday gift from Spock.) And, according to the cut Sulu scene, he had just been promoted to captain of Excelsior. These are worthy posts; Reliant was a science vessel exploring boring backwater planets. Maybe it wasn't such a plum assignment? It was only the events of ST II and III that prevented Sulu from accepting his promotion.

I can understand that the Enterprise crew worked so well with and trusted each other that they requested to remain together onboard the Enterprise-A, however after a while, especially since Kirk was planning to retire, the Officers started to think about their careers

Well, to give everyone their own starship, and have Admiral Kirk commanding their squadron, isn't very practical, nor satisfying for audiences.