Why did they destroy the Enterprise in ST3?
- Thread starter ConRefit79
- Start date
Shields up, Keptin!
Nah not to worry, opinion is an opinion
But whats not to like about the Connie Refit? If anything its one of the best designed ships in the franchise
The quotes here are incorrectly attributed. Mine is labeled as Dukhat's.
My connection to fandom at the time was through the pages of Best of Trek, and it came as a surprise to me that the Excelsior was hated. It was good enough for the comic books, after all.
I don't remember where all the "pregnant guppy" comments were coming from - "Starlog"? early Usenet? - but they were pretty relentless at the time.
We can only speculate, based on our impressions at the time. There were "Starlog" interviews wherein Bennett discussed his "classical reward narratives", and the balance of nature stuff (losing David and the Enterprise to regain Spock) but I also seem to recall that Bennett wasn't expecting negative feedback re the look of the ST III Excelsior. ILM was pretty proud of that model, and were specifically asked to create a lighter, easier to light and film starship ("Cinefex", IIRC) so that the TMP model could be retired from service - and there were the persistent rumours that Kirk would receive that new ship at the end of ST IV. The big tease at the end of the movie even hints that it'll be the one.
Bennett changed the timing of the death of Spock in ST II due to fannish events (Susan Sackett spilling the death plans at a UK convention). I wouldn't be surprised if fan reactions to Saavik, David, starship models etc inspired aspects of te ST IV script. I'm sure I recall "Cinefex" interviews where the FX guys expressed their frustration that they had to prep the TMP Enterprise again.
Yes it was. Check out the old "Cinefex" and "Cinefantastique" interviews with the ILM guys.
Okay ya "fact check Charlies", I get it: Perhaps in some pre-production phase of Trek 3 the Excelsior was going to be some kind of replacement---BUT, in the context of the film the Excelsior was practically villified. Scotty hated it, Kirk resented it, and in the end it was shown as a flop, an arrogant and cold design that was easily sabotaged and ridiculed. The fucker puttered... IT PUTTERED!!! Can you put Kirk on that ship after Scotty de-pants the bitch? If Scotty had no boner for her upgrades, why should we have one?
Even if Excelsior was giving respect later (as it was in Trek 6) the damage was done, it was castrated and never good enough for Kirk, forever a second tier ship and not the great blue hope it was meant to be. Again, keeping with the theme that big, bright, shiny, and new IS NOT a replacement for brave, reliable, tested, tried and true... just as was the Ol' Enterprise, and her valiant crew.
It would have been a bad move to make Excelsior the new hero ship, and that must of been realized at some point by the production staff and written into the script as a rival ship, not a replacement. It was the Bluto of Star Trek.
Like Spock, for instance?
Anyway, you make an excellent point, but the Excelsior was not the ship. And Kirk and the Enterprise is like Han Solo and the Millenium Falcon, it's hard to imagine one without the other.
If they replaced the Enterprise I'd be fine with it, even if it was the Excelsior. But replace it with something that is worthy of the challenge...
The Excelsior could have been that ship, had they not depicted it as a dreaded rival to the Enterprise in Trek 3. You can't call something a pile of overdesigned garbage in one film, and make it the hero ship in the next... it would be a symbolic injustice in the context and theme of the film.
ED-209 was not the hero of Robocop 2.
Spock who? I was truly gutted when they blew up the Enterprise but it was a fitting, heroic end for the old gal. I cried when Zen and the Liberator blew up too. However, I don't think that TOS Trek couldn't have gone on without her.
Although it was a nice moment in STIV, I don't think the film was ruined by the absence of the Enterprise until the final scene. It would have been perfectly possible to alter the plot elements from STV to involve breaking in the experimental Excelsior - it might even have made more sense if Transwarp really was a different type of warp speed.
The TOS obsession with the status quo limited the storytelling a bit, with senior officers chained to their posts and other actors filling in extraneous roles. If they had spread themselves a bit thinner and sneaked in a few younger characters to add to Saavik and David, they might have been able to extend the life of the TOS timeline a bit further. I understand that the original cast resented the thought of youngsters coming in and usurping their franchise but a bit more flexibility wouldn't have hurt overall.
Although it was a nice moment in STIV, I don't think the film was ruined by the absence of the Enterprise until the final scene. It would have been perfectly possible to alter the plot elements from STV to involve breaking in the experimental Excelsior - it might even have made more sense if Transwarp really was a different type of warp speed.
The TOS obsession with the status quo limited the storytelling a bit, with senior officers chained to their posts and other actors filling in extraneous roles. If they had spread themselves a bit thinner and sneaked in a few younger characters to add to Saavik and David, they might have been able to extend the life of the TOS timeline a bit further. I understand that the original cast resented the thought of youngsters coming in and usurping their franchise but a bit more flexibility wouldn't have hurt overall.
I agree with everything you said, even the Excelsior stuff. And I do think the cast was hard to wrangle and negotiate with, limiting Treks growth on screen...
But I will admit after Trek 4 I did start to miss the Enterprise. I would have accepted a new and redisgned Enterprise or something, but Kirk and crew needed to be back out in space. It was a nice adventure saving Spock and goin' back in time... but I was really hungry for a spaceship again. I also firmly believe that the TOS/Film Enterprise is as much a character as any of the other cast, so for me, it would be tough to see Kirk on any other ship... but that's me.
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Bennett and Nimoy were very disappointed, but directors and producers never (at least in those days) had control over what the trailer/marketing people chose to present to the public.
I was just a little one when Star Trek III was released, so my first time watching it was on a VHS my Dad had taped off of ABC or CBS or some such. To extend the number of movies we could get on a tape he would pause taping during the commercials. So it gets to the part where the Klingons board the ship, I hear a countdown going, and than commercial. Tape resumes and there is no boom, no mention of what happened, just Kirk and gang on Genesis. I think maybe Kirk pulled another Corbomite manuver and tricked the Klingons off. Than at the end they hijack the BoP and I am really confused. I ask my Dad what happened, and he tells me they destroyed the Enterprise. I didn't believe him, told him they didn't show that happening, they wouldn't do that, they couldn't do that. He looks at me really guiltily and confesses that he "forgot" to resume taping after that commercial and missed the Enterprise self destructing. I still tease him about it, I just don't think he wanted to record the old girl going out like that...
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
The scene LITERALLY makes me tear up every time I watch it. The composer choosing a strong statement of the TOS theme to back up the visuals really "sells" the moment.
By the way, listen to the sound fx track on that last bridge scene and you'll hear the classic bridge sounds. (Excelsior had them too in III.)
That kind of thing is why I avoid trailers even now. I'm constantly shocked at how much they give away.
Some would probably cheer.
I gotta say ConRefit79, I look at your avatar and it brings back how much I love the film version of the original Enterprise... It's just so well designed, so perfect as an update of the TOS ship without erasing it's influence. The lighting design, it's flared nacelles like the out stretched wings of a dove, the subtle art deco inspired upgrades, it's look is iconic from all angles... and damn classy.
It's just a beautiful ship. The best in Trek, no question.
It's just a beautiful ship. The best in Trek, no question.
They don't make them like they used to.
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